Angel pub on Coldharbour Lane becomes arty community space run by Brick Box

[editor]

I am pleased to see it is proposed that the A3 unit (the pub itself) be retained as an A3 unit.

Hmmm...:

The planning application is out for consultation with a deadline of 22nd March: 12/00598/FUL
Haven't checked the drawings yet myself, but the write-up is clear much as you predicted: "Construction of four 2 storey mews houses within the footprint of existing out buildings and the conversion of the upper floors with additional storey to the existing pub building (end terrace) to provide 9no.apartments in total comprising 4 no. 1 bedroom, 3 no. 2 bedroom and 1no. 3 bedroom units, cycle storage and private/ communal amenity space."

 

[editor]

They may think you a yuppie?

Stupid comment.

 

[editor]

I wish Lambeth would force developers to ensure these ground floor A3 spaces were leased to businesses. The two in LJ have languished empty for years (one is finally now a council funded centre) as the developers massively overpriced them. In my cynical opinion they wanted to leave them empty until the council relented and let them put more flats in to the space. Disgraceful

Exactly what is happening at 'The Viaduct' next to the Villaaaage and probably what we'll get at (guffaw) 'Brixton Square.'

 

[Kanda]

Stupid comment.

I'm just trying to suss out what he meant... don't blame me

 

[Winot]

.
Nell's Deli is gone

Evidence of the opposite of gentrification I'd say.

 

[shakespearegirl]

Hmmm...:

Rushy said that not me, I just cocked up the quoting! Developers should be penalised in some way for this type of behaviour.

 

[teuchter]

They may think you a yuppie?

Prepare for a specially tailored and dynamically adjusted editor definition of "yuppie" over the next few pages

 

[editor]

Prepare for a specially tailored and dynamically adjusted editor definition of "yuppie" over the next few pages

If pig-ignorant twats want to convince themselves that I'm a yuppie, I've really no interest in bothering with such a pathetic discussion.

 

[Crispy]

Well he ain't that young, and I'd call him more sideways-mobile than upwards.

The cat is pretty hip, though.

 

[Kanda]

If pig-ignorant twats want to convince themselves that I'm a yuppie, I've really no interest in bothering with such a pathetic discussion.

Who is convincing who? It was a jovial guess at what he meant... woah, calm down.. !

 

[editor]

Who is convincing who? It was a jovial guess at what he meant... woah, calm down.. !

I wasn't replying to you.

 

[shakespearegirl]

If my experience of Lambeth planning is anything to go by BrixBox will be there for a lot longer than 6 months.

Consultation on a development adjoining us finished over 5 months ago. We've only just had a site visit from the planning officer, and this only happened because we crashed and chased. Were told it would be at least another 6 weeks before its referred to committee

 

[Rushy]

That's a strange thing to say. What do you mean?

I thought that you may interpret that as a slight on you, Ed, but none was intended.

It is just that you were so quick to associate yourself with a group because of their dislike of yuppies (whatever you each mean by that), that it made me wonder whether, in the same way that someone might be pidgeon-holed because of their suit or job, you might find yourself pidgeon-holed as (for argument's sake) a bit of a hippy. Some groups just aren't all that tolerant of people outwardly different to themselves, I guess, so they treat them with suspicion, assume generalisations about them and keep them at arm's length. It's convenient and safe.


I'm not saying that would happen at that bar, but I wonder whether it might.

 

[Rushy]

Hmmm...:

The plans very clearly show the retention of A3 on the ground floor.

http://planning-docs.lambeth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00329688.pdf

Based on the strength of your feelings on the matter I had naturally assumed that you had actually looked at the proposal.

 

[Rushy]

Exactly what happened here

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-hill-road-wanless-road.280482/#post-10482979

It's not quite the same. There hasn't been anything on that site for ages so it can't be strongly argued that something is being lost by the current community. It is treated as more of a blank canvas.

 

[editor]

The plans very clearly show the retention of A3 on the ground floor.

http://planning-docs.lambeth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00329688.pdf

Given your very strong feelings on the matter I am surprised that you haven't taken the time to look at the proposal.

I don't believe it will ever reopen up as a pub, just the same as what's happened as Loughborough Junction because it will now be surrounded by nu-residents who will object to the noise and disturbance.
I said that the time.

 

[editor]

I thought that you may interpret that as a slight on you, Ed, but none was intended.

It is just that you were so quick to associate yourself with a group because of their dislike of yuppies (whatever you each mean by that), that it made me wonder whether, in the same way that someone might be pidgeon-holed because of their suit or job, you might find yourself pidgeon-holed as (for argument's sake) a bit of a hippy. Some groups just aren't all that tolerant of people outwardly different to themselves, I guess, so they treat them with suspicion, assume generalisations about them and keep them at arm's length. It's convenient and safe.

I'm not saying that would happen at that bar, but I wonder whether it might.

I think you're reading an awful lot into a throwaway remark and I frankly wish the debate would stop focussing on me.

FYI: I look very different to almost all of the people on the Residents Association and it's never caused even the slightest problem, so perhaps you're just projecting non-existent prejudices on to other people?

 

[shakespearegirl]

I don't believe it will ever reopen up as a pub, just the same as what's happened as Loughborough Junction because it will now be surrounded by nu-residents who will object to the noise and disturbance.
I said that the time.

I don't think it won't re-open due to 'nu-residents' complaining. Residential property above a commercial premises is valued lower than a purely residential development and much harder to get a mortgage on.

They will rent the flats out, make the A3 unit far too expensive so no-one will rent it. After its lain empty for a few years they will convince the council to let it turn the whole building into flats and flog them at a much higher rate than they could if they were above a pub.

 

[Rushy]

I don't believe it will ever reopen up as a pub, just the same as what's happened as Loughborough Junction because it will now be surrounded by nu-residents who will object to the noise and disturbance.
I said that the time.

The Green Man (if that's what you are referring to) was a bit of a special case. The police felt that it had been at the centre of nefarious activity for too long and its permanent closure was supposed to diffuse that. The intro of a Skills Centre was supposed to replace it with a positive community service. It was nothing to do with noise.

 

[editor]

The Green Man (if that's what you are referring to) was a bit of a special case. T

I was referring to the Warrior. That's never been open since the housing development around it was built and there seems no prospect of it ever opening as a bar. How many years has it been empty now?

 

[shakespearegirl]

It closed not long after I moved to LJ in 2000

 

[editor]

It closed not long after I moved to LJ in 2000

Used to be a great pub.

 

[Rushy]

I think you're reading an awful lot into a throwaway remark and I frankly wish the debate would stop focussing on me.

FYI: I look very different to almost all of the people on the Residents Association and it's never caused even the slightest problem, so perhaps you're just projecting non-existent prejudices on to other people?

Sorry - I wrongly interpreted it as you trying to communicate your identity by unambiguously associating yourself with a general expression of prejudice against a fairly ambiguously defined group of people. Easily done.

I won't mention it again if you don't.

 

[editor]

Sorry - I wrongly interpreted it as you trying to communicate your identity by unambiguously associating yourself with a general expression of prejudice against a fairly ambiguously defined group of people. Easily done.

I won't mention it again if you don't.

I think you need to loosen your tie a little bit, think of the bigger picture and stop focussing on me. I'm really not that important.

 

[Rushy]

I think you need to loosen your tie a little bit, think of the bigger picture and stop focussing on me. I'm really not that important.

I've made about 20 posts on this topic. I'm sure that if you re-read them you will be reassured that my focus is on the general hostility (in which you play an enthusiastic role) towards what Brick Box are doing.


At the end of the day you apparently unintentionally associated yourself with generalised prejudice. I politely picked you up on it. You dismissed your own comment as throwaway. I accept that you are a lovable cheeky chap who just got carried away by the enthusiasm of the crowd. There's no need to escalate by dissing me on the basis of whatever attire you seem to have pigeon-holed me into wearing. Move on!

 

[editor]

I've made about 20 posts on this topic. I'm sure that if you re-read them you will be reassured that my focus is on the general hostility (in which you play an enthusiastic role) towards what Brick Box are doing.

My 'hostility' has consistently only amounted to a feeling that opening their venture up with an upmarket £40 dressing-up jolly for the well-heeled is a tad inappropriate, and that their 'hanging with the street drinkers' guff is cringeworthy stuff.

That's something I still feel, and it's a sentiment that was shared with the folks in my Residents Association. I do believe we're entitled to an opinion on the matter.

 

[teuchter]

It's not quite the same. There hasn't been anything on that site for ages so it can't be strongly argued that something is being lost by the current community. It is treated as more of a blank canvas.

as far as I remember, the original permission to demolish the pub had a condition that the new building would retain some kind of commercial unit on the ground floor. Then, time passed, and now the council have abandoned that condition and there is now permission to have flats on all floors. So not exactly a blank canvas, more one that's been left in the rain long enough for the old picture to wash off

 

[lang rabbie]

The plans very clearly show the retention of A3 on the ground floor.

http://planning-docs.lambeth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00329688.pdf

Based on the strength of your feelings on the matter I had naturally assumed that you had actually looked at the proposal.

With the "liberalisation" of planning law a couple of years ago, there is a presumption that A3 uses (restaurants and cafes - NOT pubs) can be turned into shops or professional/financial offices without needing planning permission.

Which the Table hereunder sheweth:

Changes of use not requiring planning permission

In many cases involving similar types of use, a change of use of a building or land does not need planning permission. Planning permission is not needed when both the present and proposed uses fall within the same ‘class’, or if the Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order says that a change of class is permitted to another specified class (see table below).
For example, a greengrocer’s shop could be changed to a shoe shop without permission as these uses fall within the same ‘class’, and a restaurant could be changed to a shop or a estate agency as the Use Class Order allows this type of change to occur without requiring planning permission.
Most external building work associated with a change of use is likely to require planning permission.
From To
A2 (professional and financial services) when premises have a display window at ground level A1 (shop)
A3 (restaurants and cafes) A1 or A2
A4 (drinking establishments) A1 or A2 or A3
A5 (hot food takeaways) A1 or A2 or A3
B1 (business) (permission limited to change of use relating to not more than 235 square metres of floor space) B8 (storage and distribution)
B2 (general industrial) B1 (business)
B2 (general industrial) (permission limited to change of use relating to not more than 235 square metres of floor space)) B8 (storage and distribution)
B8 (storage and distribution) (permission limited to change of use relating to not more than 235 square metres of floor space) B1 (business)
C4 (houses in multiple occupation) C3 (dwellinghouses)
Casinos (sui generis) D2 (assembly and leisure)
Additionally, a planning application is not required for change of use in the following circumstances:

• from A1 or A2 to A1 plus a single flat above;
• from A2 to A2 plus a single flat above.

These changes are reversible without an application only if the part that is now a flat was, respectively, in either A1 or A2 use immediately before it became a flat.

 

[teuchter]

If pig-ignorant twats want to convince themselves that I'm a yuppie, I've really no interest in bothering with such a pathetic discussion.

This may well be the sentiment felt by some of the Brick Box people or other recent arrivals. Or, more accurately, will be in a decade or two once they are settled and grumbling about the next generation of young turks.

 

[soupdragon]

Celebrate and grab are your words and a little loaded for me. But to answer your question specifically:

I have no issue with the previous owner of the building selling it. It was sold as a pub at a public auction without any planning permission for residential.
I have no issue with the principle of converting the rear garages and existing upper and proposed third floors into self-contained residential although I think that the current proposal may be rejected as too intensive without enough amenity space.
I am pleased to see it is proposed that the A3 unit (the pub itself) be retained as an A3 unit.
I am pleased to see that the original Victorian frontage will be retained.
(Hopefully it will not remain orange but, whatever..).

None of this has any bearing on what Brick Box are doing with it whilst it awaits a planning decision and refurbishment. It is a vacant unused building where they can ply their arty shizzle for a short while on a tight budget.

Ahhh Bless. Sweet to see one property developer sticking up for another property developer.