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Angel pub on Coldharbour Lane becomes arty community space run by Brick Box

Rushy said:
I thought that you may interpret that as a slight on you, Ed, but none was intended.

It is just that you were so quick to associate yourself with a group because of their dislike of yuppies (whatever you each mean by that), that it made me wonder whether, in the same way that someone might be pidgeon-holed because of their suit or job, you might find yourself pidgeon-holed as (for argument's sake) a bit of a hippy. Some groups just aren't all that tolerant of people outwardly different to themselves, I guess, so they treat them with suspicion, assume generalisations about them and keep them at arm's length. It's convenient and safe.


I'm not saying that would happen at that bar, but I wonder whether it might.
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It was quite clearly a slight on Ed.
 
editor said:
I don't believe it will ever reopen up as a pub, just the same as what's happened as Loughborough Junction because it will now be surrounded by nu-residents who will object to the noise and disturbance.
I said that the time.
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Old time residents can do the same. The guy who owns the old Harmony Bar on Railton Road has been trying to redevelop the property with flats above and bar on ground floor. The nearby residents have been so happy since Harmony closed that they are objecting to the retention of A3 on the site he has put into his planning application.

What I object to in some of the recent applications Ive seen is the way small developers try to cram as many flats into a footprint of a site as possible.

Late licensing and the inability of the Council to deal with noise problems has meant that people now do not want a bar next to them.

I know that Brixton Society think that bars/clubs should be concentrated in central Brixton and that its better in some cases to convert ground floor into flats of former pubs outside central Brixton.

I first lived in Brixton before late licensing and when the market closed early and did not open on Sundays. If central Brixton is to be mix of residential and retail something needs to be done to ensure that central Brixton residents can have a reasonable expectation of being protected from to much noise like thumping bass.
 
shakespearegirl said:
If my experience of Lambeth planning is anything to go by BrixBox will be there for a lot longer than 6 months.

Consultation on a development adjoining us finished over 5 months ago. We've only just had a site visit from the planning officer, and this only happened because we crashed and chased. Were told it would be at least another 6 weeks before its referred to committee
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Also the developer/ owner might get planning permission and then sit on the property without doing anything until they get funds or decide to sell building on with full planning permission. In which case BB are ideal. Can keep them on some temporary lease/ agreement. It secures the building and is a cheaper alternative to paying for security firm.
 
CH1 said:
What you are getting is Lexadon preparing the way for their development and protecting the property until they are ready to do the work. You and I get a piss-elegant licensed squat to look at, at least temporarily. And the lads and lasses of "My Fathers Place" "William Hills" etc get acclimatised to the encroaching yuppies. Maybe Lexadon think a "Supper Club" is like Brixton Tube station playing classical music - makes undesirables feel really uncomfortable apparently.
Meanwhile Lexadon/Lambeth are busy evicting the Somali/Eritrean/South Sudanese/Ugandan refugee organisations from 365 Brixton Road, and also plan to demolish the former Lambeth Register Office wedding suite so they can have a vile mini "Viaduct" development near the corner of Gresham Road/Brixton Road.
For what appears to be a totally private (i.e. unquoted) company - c.f. Barratts- you have to admit Lexadon have amazing chutzpah.
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CH1 I hope you are taking all this in::rolleyes:

"Some groups just aren't all that tolerant of people outwardly different to themselves, I guess, so they treat them with suspicion, assume generalisations about them and keep them at arm's length. It's convenient and safe."
 
BrickBoxer said:
Hello everyone, I am part of the 4 person team that run The Brick Box. We're a social enterprise arts organisation formed as a community interest company.

Thought I'd just clarify a few things:
  • 354 Coldharbour lane, formerly The Angel which has been closed for a while now, was bought by a developer last year. Construction of flats is due to begin in 6 months time. Before this starts, we negotiated temporary use of the space. We felt it was important to make use of the opportunity rather than let it stand empty.
  • We are not opening the space as a pub; it wouldn't be possible on all sorts of levels for a 6 month period. We're aiming to be more inclusive by having events for and by people who don't use pubs as well as those who do. It's not supposed to be a community centre - rather an arts space which can be used by the community.
  • People tell us the building has both a positive and negative history - we're trying to build on the positive.
  • At present we are not funded or subsidised by the state, and we all work voluntarily. In order to make the project viable, we need to make some profit to fund the activities, which is why some of the events are aimed at people with a larger disposable income in order to fund activities for those who do not.
  • Our first event is indeed this Saturday, in collaboration with Saltoun Supper Club - an established Brixton business. It is not a private event. For people who want to have a 4 course meal it's £40 (£35 for the supper which is Arno's normal price + £5 entrance to the house). If the supper club is not your bag then entrance is £5. This covers the cost of security that we are legally obliged to supply for the safety of visitors, utilities, expenses, etc. The entertainment consists of over 30 performers and artists so it's not just 'walking around a house'. Like I say, we're a community interest company (CIC) so the majority of our profits go back in to community projects by law. If you'd like to look up our company, we're registered at Company's House.
  • We have been busily painting and cleaning the place (and still are!) since we moved in 2 weeks ago so when we are open officially we will have a public open evening for anyone who would like to see the space, ask us questions, and find out about getting involved.
  • Our model to make this project work is to fund free day time events with ticketed night time events. We are planning to host a variety of events, such as workshops, activities for children, debates, exhibitions, music, affordable food as well as supper clubs, craft fairs and jumble sales, film screenings, and much more. For instance, we are working on a free fringe event for Brixton Splash and are currently in discussions with Roadworks Media, and many other local organisations, about them using the space for workshops.
  • Our volunteer team is made-up of people from all walks of life, including people who were previous customers of The Angel and live locally.
On a final note, we're keen to hear from anyone who wants to be involved in the space. We aim to facilitate it - not dictate what's good or bad, valid or not - so if you have an idea or interest, please do get in touch.

Thanks and all the best.
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Thanks for coming on the thread.

I would appreciate an answer to my question about Liberty Owl- #391

It would help if you said in your publicity that you would be running commercial events like on Sat to fund the other projects related to the community. As its not clear from your FB page and website that is your model. Unless I missed something.

This post that you have put up here of your aims is more understandable than some of the stuff on your website- "About us" for example.

http://www.thebrickbox.co.uk/about-us.html

Ive commented on your "about us" page in previous post. So will not repeat here. #227
I wondered what you think.
 
CH1 said:
What you are getting is Lexadon preparing the way for their development and protecting the property until they are ready to do the work. You and I get a piss-elegant licensed squat to look at, at least temporarily. And the lads and lasses of "My Fathers Place" "William Hills" etc get acclimatised to the encroaching yuppies. Maybe Lexadon think a "Supper Club" is like Brixton Tube station playing classical music - makes undesirables feel really uncomfortable apparently.
Meanwhile Lexadon/Lambeth are busy evicting the Somali/Eritrean/South Sudanese/Ugandan refugee organisations from 365 Brixton Road, and also plan to demolish the former Lambeth Register Office wedding suite so they can have a vile mini "Viaduct" development near the corner of Gresham Road/Brixton Road.
For what appears to be a totally private (i.e. unquoted) company - c.f. Barratts- you have to admit Lexadon have amazing chutzpah.
Click to expand...

Just read this – Lexadon? is that who Brick Box have gone in with?
Lexadon are pretty vile (allegedly). Owned by Jerry Knight who is (or was) on the Times Rich List.
Expect every trick in the book.
Maybe Brick Box have borrowed their X.
 
soupdragon said:
Ahhh Bless. Sweet to see one property developer sticking up for another property developer.
:p
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Sorry. It's still unclear what exactly you are objecting to?

The owner of the pub selling it on the open market as a pub?
The new owner proposing to convert disused garages out the back into homes?
Existing residential made self contained?
The new residential storey on the roof?
Retention of existing A3 (the pub)?
Retention of Victorian façade?
My suggestion that the colour orange is a bit...meh?

Or everything and anything in general, just because it all feels a bit out of your control and you want to get it out of your system?
There there.
 
Gramsci said:
It was quite clearly a slight on Ed.
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First you tell me what opinions I am entitled to hold.
Now you know better than me what my own words mean.
Just as Mr Orwell predicted.
What next? Banishment for Thoughtcrimes?
 
Gramsci said:
Also the developer/ owner might get planning permission and then sit on the property without doing anything until they get funds or decide to sell building on with full planning permission. In which case BB are ideal. Can keep them on some temporary lease/ agreement. It secures the building and is a cheaper alternative to paying for security firm.
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Some developers do do that e.g. Golfrate who bought Brady's. Lexadon doesn't have a history of doing that to my knowledge. They don't appear to be in the habit of getting pp and selling on. They build, let and hold. So it is in their interest to do it quickly. But they can't confidently build until they have pp so they have to wait.
 
A friend of mine has an installation there tonight. Some kind of cruel Victorian menagerie. Sounds fun! I wish I could go.
Is it the opening tonight?
 
soupdragon said:
Just read this – Lexadon? is that who Brick Box have gone in with?
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I'd better check this again - I'll go down the library in a minute and see if the file is still there. I cannot see LEX on any of the planning documents online, but there is no description or correspondence online, only drawings.
Don't want people wading in if I got the facts wrong.
Application still "pending" according to the planning database - but I know now from the Fairholme hostel case that the database is not necessarily up to date.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Tbh I like all that faux Victorian stuff, and it'll probably be a lot of fun. I would likely go if i lived in the area. But then this isn't about the idea that it would be crap.
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What's it about then? Haven't read the thread. It's long and looks like its another dull planning thread
 
Rushy said:
First you tell me what opinions I am entitled to hold.
Now you know better than me what my own words mean.
Just as Mr Orwell predicted.
What next? Banishment for Thoughtcrimes?
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It was clearly a slight on the Ed.

Do not see what Orwell has got to do with this.
 
Right - the whole thing is verging on the twee I suppose, with all the circus acts n that. Still, any community arts project ought to be regarded as laudable.
 
Rushy said:
First you tell me what opinions I am entitled to hold.
Now you know better than me what my own words mean.
Just as Mr Orwell predicted.
What next? Banishment for Thoughtcrimes?
Click to expand...

Well, he didn't "predict", he speculated, and not about someone else knowing better than you what your own words mean, but about the state appropriating and changing the meanings of words as applied to language-in-use.
Apart from that, you're quite right, I'm sure. :)
 
CH1 said:
I'd better check this again
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Well I went to the Tate Library and the applicant on the Angel Public House is definitely JERRY KNIGHT and LEXADON.
So why is this information not on the net? Look more like manipulation than incompetence to me.
Regarding sundry objections to yuppy supper clubs etc. this application is to turn the Angel Pub into flats on the first floor and above, including building a mansard roof extension, tastefully set back. It also includes demolishing the storage buildings to the rear, and building an L shaped back addition, leaving courtyard access to Valentia Place.
Anybody thinking of objecting to supper clubs is probably wasting their time, I should think, apart from being out of time consultation-wise.
For what it's worth the Brixton Society wrote (on 22nd March) welcoming the continued use of the ground floor commercially, so as not to detract from the shopping parade, and basically accepting the inevitability of everything else - it does face the back of "The Viaduct" after all, so is hardly damaging the general aura of Valentia Place - indeed we thought it might actually improve it.
We did mention that residents of Southwyck House might be impacted by the view of the mansard roof extension, but that it probably would not be intrusive from the road, if built to plan.
Hope that clears that one up.
The planning officer to blame/complain to is Nick Linford - whoever he is. Never met him or spoken to him.

Over to you Ed.
 
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