Angel pub on Coldharbour Lane becomes arty community space run by Brick Box
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Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Nah, much easier to jerk the knee and slag it off from behind a computer screen.
Welcome to urban75 brick box people! now fuck off, you godawful nu-brixton hipster shits!
Am I doing it right?
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
soupdragon
Well-Known Member
yes agreed, but my point is that the state subsidises all sorts of good things, not only 'essentials' as Ms T mentions. Why's reading in libraries more important than meeting and talking and drinking in pubs? It's not, they're as important as each other. Why does the state see one as its business and the other not? Because there used to be a lack of places for people to get books, not drinks. Now we have so many books, and other media options, we don't know what to do with it all, and they say "maybe we should close them", but still we need them because many people still don't have access to them. And alongside, we also have a deficit of public places for meeting and talking and drinking.
My point, really, is that all this is because our economy is run on property bubbles. It'd be great if people could turn their creative energies to changing that. I'm sure those Brick Box people are great (hello! btw), but they are in the end part of the whole process we all / some of us moan on about. Gentrification is interior colonisation. The arts are (unwittingly, as missionaries always were) its missionaries.
I'm not completely alone in thinking this about pubs btw:
"Working-class life in Britain has become atomised, for adults as well as children. The age of the property ladder, roughly the same as the age of financial excess, played havoc with working-class communities. It gentrified Britain and dispersed its poor. It's common, again, for all immigrants to feel that their old culture wanes abroad: in Britain this sentiment has in the last generation become acute, because Muslims and eastern Europeans, for different reasons, have been treated as threats and so not integrated into local communities; the complex weave that once tied people together in London's East End or in Manchester has torn.
For all this, I don't think the prospect is hopeless, though it requires some counter-intuitive thinking. Were I George Osborne (but could I live with myself?), I would subsidise pubs rather than banks; I'd splash out on school lunches, and on dinners at schools for families; I'd make 70 the minimum age for hiring "community support officers"; I'd discourage gentrification. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/30/asbo-icon-new-labour-negligence
editor
hiraethified
I wish them all the best but still remain of the opinion that launching their venture with an upmarket £40 per head supper club jaunt for the dressing-up crowd remains a woefully misguided introduction to the area, and that their stuff about 'hanging out where the street drinkers and the bins are' remains cringe-worthy.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
I don't disagree that pubs are important to the community, but they are run for private profit, unlike libraries. And I don't think they should be a priority, when funding for essential services is at risk.
None the less, good to see Brick Box posting here.
You guys do need to be careful though - however worthy your project, developers and the council will use it to justify their plans. e.g. spacemakers has been used to justify everything from the tesco/carpark planning application to sidelining other local groups to the rent rises that kicked out long-term traders.
I hope you really mean it about involving lots of people - when asked why the brixton village account wasnt supporting older traders in the indoor market last year I was told 'they don't get it' and 'will get business other ways'.
You guys do need to be careful though - however worthy your project, developers and the council will use it to justify their plans. e.g. spacemakers has been used to justify everything from the tesco/carpark planning application to sidelining other local groups to the rent rises that kicked out long-term traders.
I hope you really mean it about involving lots of people - when asked why the brixton village account wasnt supporting older traders in the indoor market last year I was told 'they don't get it' and 'will get business other ways'.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Pubs aren't exactly the holy grail of inclusion. If you're Muslim, or if you're an older woman who was brought up believing that pubs were for men and women of low morals, or if you can't afford a pint - no matter how long you nurse it.
I was serious about pop- in parlours, btw. A very cheap social place for all older people - plus access to routes for support if needed. And not-for-profit.
I was serious about pop- in parlours, btw. A very cheap social place for all older people - plus access to routes for support if needed. And not-for-profit.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Well there's plenty of masjids/Islamic community centres around now
I didn't say pubs were the only things that were or used to be easily available for the elderly
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I've known plenty of people that go to pubs and not drink, but go because it's somewhere close enough for them to meet up and socialise for a couple of hours, and yes, there are plenty that can't afford it, and no doubt women who don't like to go in on their own, but there's also those that do, and it's not just the elderly that would appreciate having somewhere to go in the daytime
editor
hiraethified
Not sure how many old women still think that pubs are for people with low morals, but most have changed dramatically over the years. They're generally now far more open and inviting and inclusive, serve food, tea and coffee, lets kids come in and are a far cry from the smoky 'men only' boozers of yesteryear.
editor
hiraethified
You don't have to drink to go in a pub.
editor
hiraethified
Not true at all. Loads of pubs in tourist areas are generally more inviting, as are ones on walkers trails/by National Parks etc.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Which is a change that would be seen as a symptom of gentrification by a lot of people.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I don't think you could class New Park Road as a gentrified area and they have two pubs that are open in the daytime
editor
hiraethified
What, pubs letting in kids? Or offering tea?
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Not at all. The pubs had no choice in that matter so it's not something I'd link to gentrification at all
Kanda
Diving wanker
The Hand is opening a restaurant out the back!!
Kanda
Diving wanker
3 in a small area if you count The Crown and Septic
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Even I don't want to use the loos in the Crown and Septic
It's a fair walk though for someone further down the Hill, although pensioners do have their free passes but plenty of them don't even like getting on buses
Is good for being able to sit outside though, although a few months ago, I saw an elderly guy on crutches fall down the stairs out the back
and I tell you what really pisses me off about the George IV and White Horse. Barricading their frontages in.
Needed to sit down a while ago, but no, they're all fenced off so you can't even sit down and wait for the pub to open if you just happen to be there 10 minutes before it opens
Kanda
Diving wanker
No, she's doing a bit of everything... should be open this weekend I think.
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Will the food only be after a certain time (ie. the evenings) or can I get some in the daytime as well?
Any idea of prices?
Any idea of prices?
Kanda
Diving wanker
Really?
She was aiming to, maybe next.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'd say NPR is moderately gentrified.
I don't really know those pubs though. But are they the kind of pubs that my 70ish-year-old mum would want to go and have a coffee in?
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
I think she'd be perfectly comfortable in the Hand-in-Hand.
Depends on whether she's as cheerful as you of course
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, that covers most of the un-gentrified bits of South London, then.
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