Angel pub on Coldharbour Lane becomes arty community space run by Brick Box

[Mrs Magpie]

Maybe the funding is going to other groups who are doing community art work and as there is less money to go around, the project hasn't got funding (which is a shame).

I am talking about Moorlands specifically. I think the lottery funded the dragon playground. Kids were involved in the local primary school and said they wanted a Dragon's Den but they didn't participate in the actual making. The Dragon is great but unfortunately the overall design is very poor. They put in plants on the dragon's back which is at an inviting height to climb on, so no plants after day two. They also put in all the garden bits in August but with no plans for watering and little flowerbeds on the spaces where kids run around so that's all compacted dust now.

 

[Winot]

Well, should they be carted off to a rich area and we get in something more appropriate - how does it get funded? Are you going to volunteer to help out? Which idea is suitable for the community? Which community? How long does the project last? Can it sustain local interest?

And don't forgot the final and most important test -

Has it got the stamp of approval from the Urban 75 "community"?

 

[boohoo]

I am talking about Moorlands specifically. I think the lottery funded the dragon playground. Kids were involved in the local primary school and said they wanted a Dragon's Den but they didn't participate in the actual making. The Dragon is great but unfortunately the overall design is very poor. They put in plants on the dragon's back which is at an inviting height to climb on, so no plants after day two. They also put in all the garden bits in August but with no plans for watering and little flowerbeds on the spaces where kids run around so that's all compacted dust now.

Does sound like a nice idea with bad design and something that would need someone to maintain it. I'm not entirely convinced about the people who look at the applications for funding. With our first bid to restore the Brixton Windmill mural with lots of focus on the murals in Brixton and how to paint murals and the history of murals - one of the pieces of feedback we got was that they were pleased we were looking at windmills.

 

[soupdragon]

Well, should they be carted off to a rich area and we get in something more appropriate - how does it get funded? Are you going to volunteer to help out? Which idea is suitable for the community? Which community? How long does the project last? Can it sustain local interest?

Don't campaign for 6 month community projects that legitimate developments of this sort. Leave it empty and develop a campaign that makes people feel angry that the pub has been sold off. Campaign for state subsidy of low cost pubs.

 

[Ms T]

Don't campaign for 6 month community projects that legitimate developments of this sort. Leave it empty and develop a campaign that makes people feel angry that the pub has been sold off. Campaign for state subsidy of low cost pubs.

Why should the state subsidise pubs?

 

[London_Calling]

What's the matter with Weatherspoons*....

Don't answer that

 

[teuchter]

He's a great artist but he doesn't come over as arty and cool though.

Who is it?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I'll put his name up if he says it's OK to.

 

[twistedAM]

Why should the state subsidise pubs?

They should't but they are community centres, often more so than this particular venture.

On another level though the state has penalised pubs heavily by turning a blind eye to PubCos' activities, but that's a whole other thread.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What's your definition of a community centre Twisted?

 

[editor]

And don't forgot the final and most important test -

Has it got the stamp of approval from the Urban 75 "community"?

No one here makes any claims to represent anything other than their own opinions, and no one here is trousering hefty grants under the name of 'community arts development'.

I'd say most of the people posting in this thread are long term residents with a real care and love for the area, and many of them have been contributing to the community in various ways for years on end.

So, I'd say they're fully entitled to comment on any new, self styled 'community' developments occurring in their neighbourhood.

 

[twistedAM]

What's your definition of a community centre Twisted?

There's a difference between community centre and Community Centre. The former could be anything really.

 

[editor]

Why should the state subsidise pubs?

I guess it's whether you give much of a fuck for old/lonely folks in rural villages losing just about the only place they can possible sit about and mingle with all age groups (and vice versa). It's not the same in urban areas packed with boozers, but there's certainly a very real and important social element played by some pubs, and losing them can be a real loss to the local community.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

There's a difference between community centre and Community Centre. The former could be anything really.

Just checking

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I guess it's whether you give much of a fuck for old/lonely folks in rural villages losing just about the only place they can possible sit about and mingle with all age groups. It's not the same in urban areas packed with boozers, but there's certainly a very real and important social element played by some pubs, and losing them is a real loss to the local community.

Well that's the thing. Where do the old people go and drink nowadays. There's not a single pub on Brixton Hill where the elderly can now go and have a drink in the afternoon (whilst it's still light). Decades ago, George IV, White Horse, Telegraph, The Hope (Mango Landin), The Elm Park, etc. all had their regular afternoon elderly drinkers. Now, none of those pubs open 'til 5.00pm. The only ones open are the two in New Park Road or the Crown and Sceptre, and they're too far for a lot of elderly.

Community my arse

eta: Less than decades ago actually. Less than 15 years ago

 

[Ms T]

I guess it's whether you give much of a fuck for old/lonely folks in rural villages losing just about the only place they can possible sit about and mingle with all age groups (and vice versa). It's not the same in urban areas packed with boozers, but there's certainly a very real and important social element played by some pubs, and losing them can be a real loss to the local community.

As you point out that's not the case in Brixton, and given that the state is actively trying to discourage drinking for health reasons I'd say that subsidising pubs is way down on the list of priorities. Especially as local authorities are cutting down on essential services for the vulnerable and elderly.

 

[spanglechick]

I guess it's whether you give much of a fuck for old/lonely folks in rural villages losing just about the only place they can possible sit about and mingle with all age groups (and vice versa). It's not the same in urban areas packed with boozers, but there's certainly a very real and important social element played by some pubs, and losing them can be a real loss to the local community.

For the same reasons, would you support state subsidy of churches?

 

[editor]

For the same reasons, would you support state subsidy of churches?

Not sure that they need any subsidies considering the vast wealth the church holds.

But, yes, if there was a small rural church that was well attended and providing a service to all of the community, then why shouldn't it be supported?

With rural pubs facing closure, I'd suggest that they could take on additional roles to replace services that may have already closed (like mini-Post Office, library, meeting room etc etc). Some already do this in fact, although it's usually at the generosity of the landlord.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Well that's the thing. Where do the old people go and drink nowadays. There's not a single pub on Brixton Hill where the elderly can now go and have a drink in the afternoon (whilst it's still light). Decades ago, George IV, White Horse, Telegraph, The Hope (Mango Landin), The Elm Park, etc. all had their regular afternoon elderly drinkers. Now, none of those pubs open 'til 5.00pm. The only ones open are the two in New Park Road or the Crown and Sceptre, and they're too far for a lot of elderly.

Community my arse

eta: Less than decades ago actually. Less than 15 years ago

Quite a few old blokes drink in the Albert in the afternoons.

 

[editor]

As you point out that's not the case in Brixton, and given that the state is actively trying to discourage drinking for health reasons I'd say that subsidising pubs is way down on the list of priorities. Especially as local authorities are cutting down on essential services for the vulnerable and elderly.

I think Loughborough Junction is far worse off for not having a pub of some description, and I'd say the locals in my neighbourhood are worse off since the closure of the Angel.

There's certainly *far* more street drinkers on Coldharbour Lane now, and many of them are quite elderly (Cue the Brick Box running down to set up their easels).

"Cheap holiday in other people's misery!"

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Quite a few old blokes drink in the Albert in the afternoons.

I realise there are still plenty of pubs where the elderly can go, but decades ago, a local was literally a local, ie. you didn't have to go far to find one. But try being elderly, and not that mobile on Brixton Hill, there's sod all for you if you want to chat and socialise over a pint in the (safer) daylight hours

 

[spanglechick]

What happened to pop in parlours...?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What happened to pop in parlours...?

I don't know, but they sound very rude

*goes off to google pop in parlours*

*enlightened*

 

[Winot]

No one here makes any claims to represent anything other than their own opinions, and no one here is trousering hefty grants under the name of 'community arts development'.

I'd say most of the people posting in this thread are long term residents with a real care and love for the area, and many of them have been contributing to the community in various ways for years on end.

So, I'd say they're fully entitled to comment on any new, self styled 'community' developments occurring in their neighbourhood.

Don't disagree with any of that, I just think the attacks on Brick Box are misplaced.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I think Loughborough Junction is far worse off for not having a pub of some description

There's the Hero of Switzerland, but the last time I went in there it was pretty glum, which is a pity as the previous landlord and landlady were great. I've been acquainted with the present landlord for about 30 years and he's never been cheery. I can't actually ever recall him smiling. Not saying a smile has never played around his lips, just that in 30 years, I've not witnessed it.

 

[soupdragon]

Why should the state subsidise pubs?

Why should the state subsidise Brick Box?

 

[BrickBoxer]

Hello everyone, I am part of the 4 person team that run The Brick Box. We're a social enterprise arts organisation formed as a community interest company.

Thought I'd just clarify a few things:

• 354 Coldharbour lane, formerly The Angel which has been closed for a while now, was bought by a developer last year. Construction of flats is due to begin in 6 months time. Before this starts, we negotiated temporary use of the space. We felt it was important to make use of the opportunity rather than let it stand empty.
• We are not opening the space as a pub; it wouldn't be possible on all sorts of levels for a 6 month period. We're aiming to be more inclusive by having events for and by people who don't use pubs as well as those who do. It's not supposed to be a community centre - rather an arts space which can be used by the community.
• People tell us the building has both a positive and negative history - we're trying to build on the positive.
• At present we are not funded or subsidised by the state, and we all work voluntarily. In order to make the project viable, we need to make some profit to fund the activities, which is why some of the events are aimed at people with a larger disposable income in order to fund activities for those who do not.
• Our first event is indeed this Saturday, in collaboration with Saltoun Supper Club - an established Brixton business. It is not a private event. For people who want to have a 4 course meal it's £40 (£35 for the supper which is Arno's normal price + £5 entrance to the house). If the supper club is not your bag then entrance is £5. This covers the cost of security that we are legally obliged to supply for the safety of visitors, utilities, expenses, etc. The entertainment consists of over 30 performers and artists so it's not just 'walking around a house'. Like I say, we're a community interest company (CIC) so the majority of our profits go back in to community projects by law. If you'd like to look up our company, we're registered at Company's House.
• We have been busily painting and cleaning the place (and still are!) since we moved in 2 weeks ago so when we are open officially we will have a public open evening for anyone who would like to see the space, ask us questions, and find out about getting involved.
• Our model to make this project work is to fund free day time events with ticketed night time events. We are planning to host a variety of events, such as workshops, activities for children, debates, exhibitions, music, affordable food as well as supper clubs, craft fairs and jumble sales, film screenings, and much more. For instance, we are working on a free fringe event for Brixton Splash and are currently in discussions with Roadworks Media, and many other local organisations, about them using the space for workshops.
• Our volunteer team is made-up of people from all walks of life, including people who were previous customers of The Angel and live locally.

On a final note, we're keen to hear from anyone who wants to be involved in the space. We aim to facilitate it - not dictate what's good or bad, valid or not - so if you have an idea or interest, please do get in touch.
Thanks and all the best.

 

[spanglechick]

Why should the state subsidise Brick Box?

Well, categorically not standing up for brick box, but the arts - unlike alcohol sales - would dry up significantly, if not completely, without state subsidy.

You'd only be left with commercially self-sufficient art (such as Andrew Lloyd webber megamusicals), and the capacity of the arts to reflect, empower and inspire all sections of society (especially those with no access to mainstream mouthpieces) would fall by the wayside.

Nobody gets rich off state-subsidised arts, but lots of people are richer for it.

 

[Ms T]

Why should the state subsidise Brick Box?

According to the link the editor provided, the Outer London Fund is aimed at revitalising local businesses in the High Street. Whatever you think of it, Brixton Village has succeeded in promoting local enterprise.

ETA: Brick Box has just said it's not state-funded.

 

[Liberty Owl]

Lots of chatter here condemning a initiative that hasn't even opened yet! I was down helping to paint at the Angel last weekend and if you'd dropped by you would have found a fairly accurate cross section of Brixton - with their paint rollers and bin-liners, the volunteers came in all shapes and sizes, all colours and hues, all social backgrounds and a good sprinkling of accents and varying degrees of seniority. A good reflection of the community BrickBox has built up around it.
That community began with the traders of Brixton village market before any fair lights went up or saturday pocket money came flooding into the market space.
No project will ever cater for every group - but Brick Box couldn't be more of an open community-led initiative - those who have been to their events in Brixton or Tooting will have been served by local school kids learning basic trade skills behind the cafe counter, told folk tales by people from the local refugee community, seen art work by struggling local painters and photographers, watched docs screened by squatters' rights group Squash, heard local bands play nervously for the first time...etc etc. Go to them with an idea and they will find a way to make it happen.
It costs a huge amount to open up an old pub and yes, if BrickBox wasn't doing it, I think there would be other 'not-so-cuddly' developers keen to get their hands on it who couldn't give a monkeys about the history of the Angel.
I would imagine that the £40 cover for a meal and night of local performance will be much needed injection of cash to get it up and running and offset their long list of community events which so far seems to include free workshops, kids space for Brixton Splash, meeting rooms and an open-ended list of arts events suggested by Brixton locals - not cheap to get an old pub set up for lots of kids running around.
It's a new project by a well-meaning, well respected local group - why not be a little less quick to judge and perhaps a little more realistic?