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Anelka's quenelle

Interesting little look at contemporary French culture. Who knew they had this cross between Bernard Manning and Goebbels? I suppose we have Anelka's moment of madness to thank for that.
 
Thanks Elbows. They look like a typical bunch of geeky students being a bit smart-arsed (a bit like making bunny ears) rather than making an anti-semitic statement.

I am curious as to how this sign was 'hilarious' to them then... and is a different kettle of fish now apparently. What happened? It's been on the go for quite a while so why the sudden escalation in it's seriousness?

Or are they Federation of Conservative Student types?
 
Since then the quenelle has spread rapidly in France. French academic and far-right expert Jean-Yves Camus, in an interview in left-leaning daily newspaper Libération in September, called the quenelle a “badge of identity, especially among the young, although it is difficult to say whether they really understand its meaning”.

Camus added that Dieudonné has become the focus of a “broad movement that is anti-system and prone to conspiracy theories, but which has anti-Semitism as its backbone”.

“Their conviction is that there is a world order dominated by Washington and Tel Aviv,” he said. “Behind speeches that are critical of NATO and global finance, and supportive of [Syrian President] Bashar al-Assad and [late Venezuelan president] Hugo Chavez, there is the underlying conviction that it is the Jews who are pulling all the strings.”
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http://www.france24.com/en/20131230-france-quenelle-anti-semitism-anelka-dieudonne/
 
elbows said:
http://www.france24.com/en/20131230-france-quenelle-anti-semitism-anelka-dieudonne/
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From that link:

In August 2013, Dieudonné posted a video in which he argued that the quenelle had taken on a life of its own and had become something he could no longer claim as his exclusively.

“I had no idea that this rather silly gesture could become a subversive act that was capable of becoming the trigger to start the emancipation of the working masses,” he said. “It no longer belongs to me. It belongs to the coming revolution.”

But his claim that the quenelle no longer belongs to him is not altogether true. The comedian has been busy launching a range of quenelle-related merchandise, while his wife in October registered the quenelle as a trademark with the French National Industrial Property Institute.
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scumbags
 
Whats the crossover appeal with generation identaire ? Dont the FN have an oar in that boat too?
 
NBA star Tony Parker has apologised, after a photo of him making the gesture was put on the Simon Wiesenthal list of top 10 anti-semitic/anti-Israel slurs for 2013.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/30/tony-parker-nazi-quenelle-salute-dieudonne

“While this gesture has been part of French culture for many years, it was not until recently that I learned of the very negative concerns associated with it. When l was photographed making that gesture three years ago, I thought it was part of a comedy act and did not know that it could be in any way offensive or harmful. Since I have been made aware of the seriousness of this gesture, I will certainly never repeat the gesture and sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding or harm relating to my actions. Hopefully this incident will serve to educate others that we need to be more aware that things that may seem innocuous can actually have a history of hate and hurt.”
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Unfortunately the top ten list is itself, in places, full of hate and bile.
 
Humberto said:
Sounds like popular antisemitism. :( Jews 'pulling all the strings'.
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except its the critic saying it in this case, not the broad mass of people hes giving out about, who he says in the next breath dont understand what it means. Which looks to me like hes ascribing a meaning for it for them .

Which makes me more than a bit of wary of the pundit in question who apparently specialises in the relationship between the far left and the zionist entity . This makes me a bit wary of that guys analysis. Because what he seems to be having a go at are the elements on the left who are anti zionist and anti washington, and ascribing anti semitism to that . Thats my take on it anyway .

http://www.iris-france.org/cv.php?fichier=cv/cv2&nom=camus


That Id hasten to add shouldnt be miscontrued as any form of support for the gesture, anelka or the comedian. Because I simply dont support any of it . I just get a sniff of this particular academic chucking a bucket of anti semitic slurry over a very broad range of people on the french left whos views on zionism and Washington he seems to have the hump over.
 
Casually Red said:
except its the critic saying it in this case, not the broad mass of people hes giving out about, who he says in the next breath dont understand what it means. Which looks to me like hes ascribing a meaning for it for them .

Which makes me more than a bit of wary of the pundit in question who apparently specialises in the relationship between the far left and the zionist entity, not the extreme right . This makes me a bit wary of that guys analysis. Because what he seems to be having a go at are the elements on the left who are anti zionist and anti washington, and ascribing anti semitism to that . Thats my take on it anyway .

http://www.iris-france.org/cv.php?fichier=cv/cv2&nom=camus


That Id hasten to add shouldnt be miscontrued as any form of support for the gesture, anelka or the comedian. Because I simply dont support any of it . I just get a sniff of this particular academic chucking a bucket of anti semitic slurry over a very broad range of people on the french left whos views on zionism and Washington he seems to have the hump over.
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Have you bothered to read anything about Dieudonne and what he says, who he organises with?
 
Fedayn said:
Have you bothered to read anything about Dieudonne and what he says, who he organises with?
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Indeed I have and i thought id made it clear...im not in any manner supportive of the guy or remotely trying to defend him

Have you read what Ive said ? Plainly you havent . Go back and read it again .
 
frogwoman said:
God how depressing.
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what is ? Im criticising the very broad strokes this particular pundit is using against a very wide range of people , who he claims are anti semitic for using an anti semitic gesture they dont know is anti semitic .


eta

and claiming they in turn are representative of a wider anti washington and anti zionist current
Do you agree with a crappy analysis like that ?
 
Casually Red said:
except its the critic saying it in this case, not the broad mass of people hes giving out about, who he says in the next breath dont understand what it means. Which looks to me like hes ascribing a meaning for it for them .
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I've not looked into him yet, but the way I read it was different. I thought he was treating the youth who he says have the gesture as an identity badge, and those who support Dieudonné, as two different groups. There will be an overlap, but the scale of it is somewhat hard to determine. The longer-term response to the recent awareness about this gesture and anti-semitism might offer some clues, e.g. will its popular use decline, how much of a struggle will there be to retain the idea that there is an non-anti-semitic interpretation of it?
 
Casually Red said:
Indeed I have and i thought id made it clear...im not in any manner supportive of the guy or remotely trying to defend him

Have you read what Ive said ? Plainly you havent . Go back and read it again .
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No, i've read it and like elbows see the clear differentiation the writer is making, you clearly don't. As I said earlier that some people-for manifold reasons-might not make the connection between the gesture and the anti-semitic throbber behind it doesn't make it any less anti-semitic in it's origin or in its use by Dieudonne.

By the way, what part of the 'Left' behaviour do you think would encourage such a gesture, with it's genesis, outside Jewish as opposed to Israeli buildings/places etc? Or in the company of Jewish people?
 
Casually Red said:
what is ? Im criticising the very broad strokes this particular pundit is using against a very wide range of people , who he claims are anti semitic for using an anti semitic gesture they dont know is anti semitic .


eta

and claiming they in turn are representative of a wider anti washington and anti zionist current
Do you agree with a crappy analysis like that ?
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Eh? I'm saying the whole thread is depressing, I hadn't even read your post when I said that
 
elbows said:
I've not looked into him yet, but the way I read it was different. I thought he was treating the youth who he says have the gesture as an identity badge, and those who support Dieudonné, as two different groups. There will be an overlap, but the scale of it is somewhat hard to determine. The longer-term response to the recent awareness about this gesture and anti-semitism might offer some clues, e.g. will its popular use decline, how much of a struggle will there be to retain the idea that there is an non-anti-semitic interpretation of it?
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if you read the guy its not the gesture or even the comedian hes really giving out about . The focus of his entire attack is a broad left wing base of opinion. Anti NATO, Anti Washington, Anti Zionist, Pro Chavez ..himself accused of anti semitism..Pro Syrian, Pro Palestinian. And hes telling them theyre anti semitic without realising they are . Mainly because of what theyre against ...which he ascribes...on their behalf ... as being down to some conspiracy theory about the jews controlling everything.

So, plainly if you wish to demonstrate you dont hold this anti semtic cosnpiracy theory youd be pro zionist and pro washington, anti Syria etc instead.
 
Fedayn said:
No, i've read it and like elbows see the clear differentiation the writer is making, you clearly don't. As I said earlier that some people-for manifold reasons-might not make the connection between the gesture and the anti-semitic throbber behind it doesn't make it any less anti-semitic in it's origin or in its use by Dieudonne.

By the way, what part of the 'Left' behaviour do you think would encourage such a gesture, with it's genesis, outside Jewish as opposed to Israeli buildings/places etc? Or in the company of Jewish people?
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read my fucking post above, jesus.

I made clear in my original post I wasnt even talking about the gesture, the player, or the fucking shitty comedian.

I was talking solely about this particular pundit taking the opportunity to ascribe anti semistism to a much wider group of people who hold political opinions. Which he ascribes to anti semitism. He doesnt even claim they all use the gesture . He just says the anti jewish comedian is their figurehead because of what they believe in . Thats simple opportunism in my book .
 
Casually Red said:
if you read the guy its not the gesture or even the comedian hes really giving out about . The focus of his entire attack is a broad left wing base of opinion. Anti NATO, Anti Washington, Anti Zionist, Pro Chavez ..himself accused of anti semitism..Pro Syrian, Pro Palestinian. And hes telling them theyre anti semitic without realising they are . Mainly because of what theyre against ...which he ascribes...on their behalf ... as being down to some conspiracy theory about the jews controlling everything.

So, plainly if you wish to demonstrate you dont hold this anti semtic cosnpiracy theory youd be pro zionist and pro washington, anti Syria etc instead.
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All of the above are ideas that the French, Italian, German far-right hold. The 'new' far-right are making a serious play on these very issues. The very same groups who still talk about the controlling families and groups, ie Bilderbergs etc behind this very same 'system'. This links in with the move by both Soral and Diuedonne from the 'marxist'/Stalinist left to working with far-right/anti-semite/Islamic anti-Jewish groups.
 
Casually Red said:
read my fucking post above, jesus.

I made clear in my original post I wasnt even talking about the gesture, the player, or the fucking shitty comedian.

I was talking solely about this particular pundit taking the opportunity to ascribe anti semistism to a much wider group of people who hold political opinions. Which he ascribes to anti semitism. He doesnt even claim they all use the gesture . He just says the anti jewish comedian is their figurehead because of what they believe in . Thats simple opportunism in my book .
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Do you think they ignore his jibes about gas chambers? His standing with a known fascist in elections? His giving Faurisson the award? The French far-right vote is in the millions, that Dieudonne might have the 'support' of a few thousand is hardly unlikely or impossible given that is what he is now looking at and trying to bring along with his 'synthesis' of Left/Right.
 
Fedayn said:
Do you think they ignore his jibes about gas chambers? His standing with a known fascist in elections? His giving Faurisson the award? The French far-right vote is in the millions, that Dieudonne might have the 'support' of a few thousand is hardly unlikely or impossible given that is what he is now looking at and trying to bring along with his 'synthesis' of Left/Right.
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why are you even talking about him in realtion to my posts ? I wasnt . How many fucking times do I have to point that out .

Its plain your stuck in a seperate issue to what I was referring to .
 
Casually Red said:
why are you even talking about him in realtion to my posts ? I wasnt . How many fucking times do I have to point that out .

Its plain your stuck in a seperate issue to what I was referring to .
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Who do you think the people that Dieudonne is trying to reach are following? Is Dieudonne somehow irrelevant in this? Why is this same broad brush approach re the ideas you mention not being used (in the same way) against those on the Left not following Dieudonne? Is it an accident or is there a reason for it? Possibly because what Soral, Dieudonne et al are trying to do is use, like other anti-semites in Europe, the language once associated with the 'left' as a way of getting them into the 'Red/Brown' link up they are promoting?
You can't simply remove Dieudonne from the equation as you clearly are wanting to do.
 
Fedayn said:
Who do you think the people that Dieudonne is trying to reach are following? Is Dieudonne somehow irrelevant in this? Why is this same broad brush approach re the ideas you mention not being used (in the same way) against those on the Left not following Dieudonne? Is it an accident or is there a reason for it? Possibly because what Soral, Dieudonne et al are trying to do is use, like other anti-semites in Europe, the language once associated with the 'left' as a way of getting them into the 'Red/Brown' link up they are promoting?
You can't simply remove Dieudonne from the equation as you clearly are wanting to do.
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My reference was solely to Camus, not the salute or the prick comedian . Your trying to drag me into supporting Camus analysis, which I was questioning and saying I was wary of. Again, he personally ascribes an anti semite as titular leader of a wider anti zionist, anti Nato, anti imperialist leftist platform . That is a clear attack on those political positions and those who hold them as anti semitic ...as if they wouldnt exist were it not for some prick of a comedian. It is the default pro zionist attack on an anti zionist stance ...anti semitism.

The wider issue of the european left disappearing up its own arsehole is secondary . Whatevers useful in its remnants will most likely be absorbed by the new right in typical Darwinian fashion. Thats what happens when something dies , parasites and vermin devour the caracass. The vaccuum the Left were incapable of filling accross europe is big enough now for the right to drive a column of Panzers through . A nasty little comedian is an irrelavance to that . Although I can see how itd be a handy scapegoat .
 
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