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Anelka's quenelle

frogwoman said:
I have actually gone out my way to say I dunno if anelka is one or not. Fair enough you like anelka and don't want to think he could be mates with scum, let alone be one himself, but you don't have to take criticism of anelka and chums as a personal attack ffs. Its like bolshiebhoy on the SWP thread going on about the SWP and how comrade delta is all right, it's the mentality of thinking that because you like a person (who you dont even know!) it means they aren't a cunt, guess what things dont work like that in the real world, I don't think you're an antisemite, you're being pretty daft here though.
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I thought the argument revolved around whether he knowingly used an anti-Semitic gesture.
 
frogwoman said:
i think dexter is arguing it's not anti-semitic at all
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My French is pretty shite, but what I've seen looking on the various Francophone news sites, and on a couple of German news sites, is a pretty unambiguous acknowledgement that the quenelle is both anti-Semitic and anti-establishment - that it's a "fuck you" to the establishment generally, and to Jews specifically, however much individuals might waffle about how when they do it, it's only anti-establishment.

If dexter is indeed arguing that the queneele is not at all anti-Semitic, then he's either stupid or massively disingenuous and dishonest.
 
ViolentPanda said:
My French is pretty shite, but what I've seen looking on the various Francophone news sites, and on a couple of German news sites, is a pretty unambiguous acknowledgement that the quenelle is both anti-Semitic and anti-establishment - that it's a "fuck you" to the establishment generally, and to Jews specifically, however much individuals might waffle about how when they do it, it's only anti-establishment.

If dexter is indeed arguing that the queneele is not at all anti-Semitic, then he's either stupid or massively disingenuous and dishonest.
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I think what DexterTCN is doing is merely asserting that it not anti-semitic rather than actually arguing.

When this thread started I had never previously heard of the quenelle or of Dieudonné, but I was fairly quickly convinced that it is anti-semitic in intent, whilst those who originated and use it attempt to hide behind claims it's merely "anti-establishment" (and we see that attempt by anti-semites in plenty of other contexts - it's not like it's original in this case).

Given the examples and arguments put forward on this thread, I think if Dexter really wants to argue a case, he needs to address at least some of those arguments, otherwise I'll compelled to agree with you that he is indeed either stupid or massively disingenuous and dishonest.
 
This talk about anti- establishment and/ or anti Semitic is misleading. For dieudonne and his ilk the establishment is Jewish, to be anti establishment is to be anti Jew. This is what is meant by the term 'socialism of fools'.
When someone claims their quenelle is an anti esablishment act, the establishment they are opposing is Jewish.
 
well this is sort of what i'm saying about who anti-semitism appeals to. "anti-establishment", anti-capitalist, "left wing", "alternative" but not pro working class, thinking they're more educated than "pasty-faced mobs" and that sort of thing - but not realising their politics could in some ways be described as far-right
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/23/nicolas-anelka-jewish-quenelle

But in a statement on the CRIF website, Cukierman has clarified his earlier views, and made clear Anelka's actions were disappointing.

"The quenelle is a Nazi salute reversed, there's no doubt in my mind because this is the will of the one who created and popularised it for purely ideological ends," said Cukierman.

"My statements in Le Figaro are no denial or renunciation on this subject, despite the interpretations that were made.

"However, I wished, perhaps too quickly, to demonstrate that it was important to show discernment, restraint, to avoid being drawn into a spiral that was difficult to control.

"It is clear the gesture of the quenelle has dangerously spread among our citizens and especially youth.

"They don't realise the severity and scope. They are doing this gesture for provocation rather than antisemitism, at least I hope so.

"Should we be hard on them? Definitely, as it glorifies crime against humanity, but we must also teach the youth who are manipulated by Dieudonne and his followers.
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frogwoman said:
Is that it?
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All I can be arsed with. Thought it was quite plain myself. One definitive post about my alleged jew-hatery delivered as requested.

Not even a thank-you? With the comments about me trolling etc. I'm just going to find more interesting discussions.

Enjoy.
 
DexterTCN said:
All I can be arsed with. Thought it was quite plain myself. One definitive post about my alleged jew-hatery delivered as requested.

Not even a thank-you? With the comments about me trolling etc. I'm just going to find more interesting discussions.

Enjoy.
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You've been going on and on about how people are accusing you of anti-semitism (I didn't see any such accusations, and certainly haven't accused you of it myself) throughout te thread and then when asked you can only provide one example of it

Delroy hasnt posted on the thread for like a few weeks and you're going on about it like it's happening all the time
 
frogwoman said:
You've been going on and on about how people are accusing you of anti-semitism (I didn't see any such accusations, and certainly haven't accused you of it myself) throughout te thread and then when asked you can only provide one example of it

Delroy hasnt posted on the thread for like a few weeks and you're going on about it like it's happening all the time
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infamy! infamy! they've all got it infamy!

Kenneth_Williams_Carry_On_Cleo.jpg


DexterTCN recently
 
DexterTCN said:
All I can be arsed with. Thought it was quite plain myself. One definitive post about my alleged jew-hatery delivered as requested.

Not even a thank-you? With the comments about me trolling etc. I'm just going to find more interesting discussions.

Enjoy.
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Thank you for finding the one post on the thread which supports your attempt to divert the argument into being all about you, and congratulations on your (inadvertant) demonstration that you can be both disingenuous/dishonest/trolling and thick as pigshit in expecting anyone to take you seriously
 
DexterTCN said:
All I can be arsed with. Thought it was quite plain myself. One definitive post about my alleged jew-hatery delivered as requested.
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It's hardly "definitive", and if the post is read in context (hence why I asked you for links), then it's apparent that you're not being accussed, that Delroy Booth is being extremely sarcastic and mimicking your simplistic black and white worldview.

Not even a thank-you? With the comments about me trolling etc. I'm just going to find more interesting discussions.

Enjoy.
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Do one. In fact why not do two?
 
frogwoman said:
You've been going on and on about how people are accusing you of anti-semitism (I didn't see any such accusations, and certainly haven't accused you of it myself) throughout te thread and then when asked you can only provide one example of it
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Yup. Last time I looked, "people" was the plural of "person", not interchangeable with it.

Delroy hasnt posted on the thread for like a few weeks and you're going on about it like it's happening all the time
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What a surprise! I'd never have guessed that dexter would be dishonest. It's not like he's got form for...oh wait! :facepalm:
 
Very soft skynews interview with Dieudonne. He's claiming it's an anti-slavery gesture.

http://news.sky.com/story/1199869/exclusive-dieudonne-breaks-silence-on-quenelle

To answer the earlier question about what the CRIF's Cukierman said.
He told French newspaper Le Figaro the quenelle is only anti-Semitic when it is performed at a Jewish site.

"In a place that has no significance for Jews, it is merely an anti-establishment gesture which I feel does not warrant any harsh sanction," he said.

But in a statement on the CRIF website, Mr Cukierman clarified his earlier views and said he was disappointed by Anelka's actions.

"The quenelle is a Nazi salute reversed, there's no doubt in my mind because this is the will of the one who created and popularised it for purely ideological ends," he said.

"My statements in Le Figaro are no denial or renunciation on this subject, despite the interpretations that were made.

"However, I wished, perhaps too quickly, to demonstrate that it was important to show discernment, restraint, to avoid being drawn into a spiral that was difficult to control.
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Put that on your twitter machine Anelka.
 
copliker said:
Very soft skynews interview with Dieudonne. He's claiming it's an anti-slavery gesture.

http://news.sky.com/story/1199869/exclusive-dieudonne-breaks-silence-on-quenelle

To answer the earlier question about what the CRIF's Cukierman said.

Put that on your twitter machine Anelka.
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Is he going to make 2014 the year of new beginnings? When the fuck did we get to the point where someone "clarifying something on twitter" is a substitute for a proper apology or anything?
 
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