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Anelka's quenelle

anyway yeah it's friday afternoon, sorry, i explained in some other posts before about what I think is happening and who I think this sort of thing appeals to. Over the last year or so I've definitely heard a lot more of it. I also think those who kept their views to themselves before are becoming more bold in expressing them.

I also think that conspiracy theories are becoming increasingly commonly known about, I've met loads of random people in the last year who have talked about these types of conspiracies, other people I know have too. There's certainly an increase in these types of nutters and the extent to which it's becoming more commonly known about (especially with mates of mine that are into certain types of things, raves etc)

It does scare me. It really does, I think it's becoming more of a problem.

But I can't see it becoming as bad as it is in say france, or ukraine, I think the nature of anti-semitism in the UK (the fact that there aren't many jews, among other things) means that it will only appeal to a minority of people and that for a lot of them the popularity of it will come out of the fact that it's seen as socially unacceptable, that in their minds will equate to being anti-establishment or whatever.

i hope i'm right anyway.
 
cesare said:
The whole point of the quenelle is to hide/normalise the anti-semitism in the form of a popularist "anti-establishment" gesture.
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i know mate, but I don't want to scare myself too much. I do think it's a problem, and getting worse, based on what i've experienced and what people i know have.

but i don't think we should start panicking just yet
 
frogwoman said:
i know mate, but I don't want to scare myself too much. I do think it's a problem, and getting worse, based on what i've experienced and what people i know have.

but i don't think we should start panicking just yet
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I don't think there's any reason to panic, but I do think it's a good thing to show it for what it is
 
cesare said:
I don't think there's any reason to panic, but I do think it's a good thing to show it for what it is
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Me too mate.

I wasn't trying to say it's not a problem at all. In my experience it's very unusual for jewish people to never experience it. But the majority of anti-semitism I've experienced has been from political types tbh. Out of everyone I work with at my current workplace, for example, I can't imagine any of them being anti-semitic.
 
Maybe one of them is, you can't see inside everyone's heads. But I doubt it. Anti-semitism tends to be largely a middle class thing though in my experience (meaning that most of the anti-semites I've come across are pretty middle class, not that all middle class people are like that)
 
DotCommunist said:
so is a match or 10s ban the extent of what the FA can give out or does it include fines?
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A somewhat cursory glance at the current handbook (page 391) indicates a variety of sanctions: http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/...-association/2013-14/fa-handbook-2013-14.ashx

8 PENALTIES

  1. 8.1 The Regulatory Commission shall have the power to impose any one or more of the following penalties on the Participant Charged:
    1. (a) a reprimand and/or warning as to future conduct;

    2. (b) afine;

    3. (c) suspension from all or any specified football activity from a date that the Regulatory Commission shall order, permanently or for a stated period or number of matches;

    4. (d) the closure of a ground permanently or for a stated period;

    5. (e) any order which may be made under the rules and regulations of a Competition in which the Participant Charged participates or is associated, which shall be deemed to include the deduction of points and removal from a Competition at any stage of any Playing Season;

    6. (f) expulsion from a Competition;

    7. (g) expulsion from membership of The Association or an Affiliated Association;

    8. (h) such further or other penalty or order as it considers appropriate.
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cesare said:
It'll be more like a race discrimination employment tribunal than that.
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Maybe, but it will depend how each side chooses to pursue it. There will be at least a possibility for it to descend into hair-splitting arguments about what exactly is meant by various terms within the charge

An FA statement said: "It is alleged that, in the 40th minute of the fixture, Anelka made a gesture which was abusive and/or indecent and/or insulting and/or improper, contrary to FA Rule E3[1].

"It is further alleged that this is an aggravated breach, as defined in FA Rule E3[2], in that it included a reference to ethnic origin and/or race and/or religion or belief."
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and so it may yet come to resemble reading a thread which gets derailed by a few disengenuous trolls, as indeed this one has at times.

Hope not though.
 
andysays said:
Maybe, but it will depend how each side chooses to pursue it. There will be at least a possibility for it to descend into hair-splitting arguments about what exactly is meant by various terms within the charge



and so it may yet come to resemble reading a thread which gets derailed by a few disengenuous trolls, as indeed this one has at times.

Hope not though.
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It's a lawyers' wet dream, at any rate.
 
frogwoman said:
Maybe one of them is, you can't see inside everyone's heads. But I doubt it. Anti-semitism tends to be largely a middle class thing though in my experience (meaning that most of the anti-semites I've come across are pretty middle class, not that all middle class people are like that)
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It is said that there is a long-standing 'relatively polite, upper-class anti-semitism' in Britain. And I've certainly heard of Jewish kids getting some stick at boarding school etc. But this isn't something I know much about.
 
Theisticle said:
FIFA banned Josip Simunic for using a fascist chant so the FA have grounds to ban Anelka for at least 5-10 games. They should throw the book at him. Considering he's made no apology and is constantly deflecting blame.

Here's a more explicit example of Dieudonne’s antisemitism. http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=4706
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throwing a 652-page book should make some impression on anelka
 
elbows said:
It is said that there is a long-standing 'relatively polite, upper-class anti-semitism' in Britain. And I've certainly heard of Jewish kids getting some stick at boarding school etc. But this isn't something I know much about.
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I'm not sure if polite is the right word but Jewish kids at my school did tend to get quite a lot of abuse (I didn't tell anyone at that point) my sister was bullied a bit and antisemitism came into it, it stopped when we changed schools. I remember telling people at my new school about it and them being shocked. Dunno what it's like in boarding schools, I can imagine there's quite a lot of racism of all descriptions.

The managers of the privare school i worked fir lsst year, they also liked to think they were progressive, had some anti-government views etc. They were the type of people who looked down on people they saw as uneducated.

Either way I'll say that in most workplaces I've been in apart from that place I've never had anything like that.
 
Also the antisemites I came across in the PSC - again white middle class, the type of people who could afford to do things like go to Palestine all the time, one of them had lived there and lived in a quite high powered job when he was there, another one was a homeopath or something :facepalm:

The people who were actually of Palestinian descent themselves actually tended to have pretty sound politics tbh. In my experience anyway! (Although one of them was a lib-dem :( ) he was a decent lad though, hopefully he's left :)
 
frogwoman said:
I'm not sure if polite is the right word but Jewish kids at my school did tend to get quite a lot of abuse (I didn't tell anyone at that point) my sister was bullied a bit and antisemitism came into it, it stopped when we changed schools.
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I think the reference to polite was not the kids but what they became as adults. And polite meaning a particular way of wrapping horrible, bigoted stances in a layer of posh and semi-friendly language, as opposed to more vulgar but honest forms of abuse.
 
elbows said:
I think the reference to polite was not the kids but what they became as adults. And polite meaning a particular way of wrapping horrible, bigoted stances in a layer of posh and semi-friendly language, as opposed to more vulgar but honest forms of abuse.
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Yes, that's my experience too.
 
Theisticle said:
Here's a more explicit example of Dieudonne’s antisemitism. http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=4706
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Well done to the CST blog for translating Dioudonne's vile, openly anti-Semitic "song" into English, so that we can all see/hear for ourselves Dioudonne's rampant unplesantness onstage, and further nailing the lie that Dioudonne is some sort of "anti-establishment" figure, instead of what is actually is.
 
Not keen on the CST but let's quote their translation in full:

Shoah pineapple, sho sho sho pineapple, you take me by the shoah, I take you by the pineapple, Shoah pineapple.
We mustn’t forget. There’s a way to make money. Sho sho sho pineapple.
Shoah pineapple, shoah apricot. Shoah anise, shoah maggot, shoah artichoke. Shoah strawberry, shoah ice cream. Shoah chocolate. Shoah.
Shoah pineapple, sho sho sho pineapple. You take me by the shoah, I’ll take you by the pineapple, sho sho sho pineapple.
Darling pineapple I’ll never forget you. You’ve suffered so much. And for everything that you’ve suffered we want to give you reparations. We want you to be given a country in the sun, and millions of dollars for the millions of pineapples that were deported: for the millions of pineapples who lost their families let’s sing forever. Sho sho sho pineapple.
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1st December 2003: Dieudonne appeared on the French Television channel "France 3" in a show called "You Can't Please Everybody". In the sketch he presented he was dressed up as a Nazi kamikaze rabbi and stated: "I have recently converted to the Fundamentalist Zionist religion…. I invite those youngsters who are viewing this in the suburbs [so I can] say to them 'Change your religion, as I did. Join the American-Zionist axis' ending with the shout "IsraeHeil". The program's guest, for whom Dieudonne performed the act, Jamel Debbouze laughed. The program's presenter, Marc Olivier Fogiel, was very embarrassed but did not intervene. After a surge of reactions, "France 3" and Fogiel published an apology. The CSA (Conseil Superier de l'Audiovisuel) the Radio and Television Council, sent a sharp warning to France Television.

Video:
 
Jamel Debbouze is huge in france and has been associated with this anti-semite clown for nearly 20 years now. Something is rotten over there. Here he is saying that the clown is saying what what you're really thinking:

 
Debbouze actually dissassociated himself from the anti-semitic clown in 2005 - guess why- for his massive racism and anti-semitism, and as such has been declared a 'traitor' by the clown and his right wing mates - and they are very busy trying to pin a murder on him.

edit: as did his one time comic partner Gad Elmaleh, calling him 'deeply anti-semitic'.
 
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