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Anelka's quenelle

MellySingsDoom said:
He made the gesture fully knowing about its connotations, and what Dioudonne "invented" it for.

Please, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, go back and read this thread again. You're making yourself look a complete arse on here right now.
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Sorry...we haven't talked before, I don't think.

The people who are saying Anelka is an anti-semite...well they're saying I'm an anti-semite.

And I'm not. So you see my problem?

I'm very unlikely to listen to them on the subject.
 
Those people who say dexter is jesus, well i think dexter is jesus. You see the problem that people who think that dexter is jesus are faced with? Why should people who don't think dexter are jesus be listened to?

How about having a listen to and think about the content of peoples arguments dexter you juvenile old man?
 
DexterTCN said:
Sorry...we haven't talked before, I don't think.

The people who are saying Anelka is an anti-semite...well they're saying I'm an anti-semite.

And I'm not. So you see my problem?

I'm very unlikely to listen to them on the subject.
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Hello Dexter

Personally speaking, I've no idea whether you're an anti-Semite or not. If you say that you are not one, then I'll take your word for it.

As for my previous postings to you, they still stand: your take on the Anelka quenelle is completely wrong-headed, I'm afraid. If you had been following this thread from the very beginning, you would have seen that the whole quenelle business has been tackled and analysed head-on, and it became clear very, very quickly here what the true intent and meaning of the quenelle is all about. The evidence for the meaning and signification of said gesture is clear for all to see, and Dioudonne's own comment of it being an "anti-establishment" gesture has been shown up here to be absolute bullshit of the highest order.

As I said in a previous posting here, any so-called "anti-establishment" intent of said quenelle has been completely transformed into an anti-Semitic trope, by its adoption by anti-Semites and general fascist/racist loons of every stripe imaginible - just look at that fascist clown Alain Soral performing said gesture at the Holocaust Memorial site in Berlin...are you seriously suggesting that Soral was being "anti-establishment" there? Was just saying "up yours/fuck you"? Because if you are - and you seem to be sincere in this belief - then you're being incredibly naive, to say the least. Dioudonne may have been a "leftist" once upon a lifetime ago, but those days are well, well past, and his racist obssesion with Jewish people puts him firmly in the far-rightist camp - small wonder that he's so pally with the likes of Le Pen senior and Robert Faurisson, not to mention various French Third Positionist types. As a friend of mine said to me, Dioudonne "manages to attract a certain stripe of idiot on the left who mistakes his anti-Semitism for anti-Zionism". Dioudonne knows very well what game he's playing, and if anything, the current fuss has simply hardened his anti-Semitic views even more.

As I said before, do yourself a favour - read this entire thread from page one onwards, then come back and give us your point of view then, and not before.
 
DexterTCN said:
Sorry...we haven't talked before, I don't think.

The people who are saying Anelka is an anti-semite...well they're saying I'm an anti-semite.

And I'm not. So you see my problem?

I'm very unlikely to listen to them on the subject.
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No, they're not saying you're an anti-Semite.
They're saying you're a cunt, a nogoodnik, and an apologist for an anti-semite.

Totally different thing, you soiled tossrag.
 
butchersapron said:
Those people who say dexter is jesus, well i think dexter is jesus. You see the problem that people who think that dexter is jesus are faced with? Why should people who don't think dexter are jesus be listened to?

How about having a listen to and think about the content of peoples arguments dexter you juvenile old man?
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Hey, I'll happily think of him as Jesus if it means he'll be crucified!
 
ViolentPanda said:
No, they're not saying you're an anti-Semite.
They're saying you're a cunt, a nogoodnik, and an apologist for an anti-semite.

Totally different thing, you soiled tossrag.
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Oh they've specifically called me an anti-semite...you must not be reading it (because it doesn't suit you).

You're calling me a cunt. Not anyone else (so far).

You're calling me an apologist for Anelka...saying he's an anti-semite so I support him.

I'm saying you've not proved anything against him. All you've done is go on about other people and posted pictures of white people outside memorials.

You've presented no proof, that I have seen, that Anelka is an anti-semite.

And bear in mind....you're an aggressive, accusatory and offensive person. But you can do that with me, it's allowed...I'm not an 'ism'. That makes it ok.
 
DexterTCN said:
Oh they've specifically called me an anti-semite...you must not be reading it (because it doesn't suit you).

You're calling me a cunt. Not anyone else (so far).

You're calling me an apologist for Anelka...saying he's an anti-semite so I support him.

I'm saying you've not proved anything against him. All you've done is go on about other people and posted pictures of white people outside memorials.

You've presented no proof, that I have seen, that Anelka is an anti-semite.

And bear in mind....you're an aggressive, accusatory and offensive person. But you can do that with me, it's allowed...I'm not an 'ism'. That makes it ok.
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You need to read at least some of the thread. It'd be hard to get here and post the way you are doing if you had. Go on, just give it a scan.
 
DexterTCN said:
Why don't you just link to some posts about Anelka :)
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There has been discussion in this thread regarding the extent to which the quenelle can be interpreted as an 'anti-authoritarian' or anti-semitic, and I think it fair to say that most posters have decided upon the latter.

In saying this:-

....in the UK there is a similar physical expression of derision.
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...youre defending Anelka from any accusation of anti-semitism or offence.
 
it was a very amusing joke to say the quennelle was merely a half 'up-yours' but nobody could mean that seriously could they? It makes no sense. It's like saying sieg hieling is just reaching for a high shelf
 
brogdale said:
There has been discussion in this thread regarding the extent to which the quenelle can be interpreted as an 'anti-authoritarian' or anti-semitic, and I think it fair to say that most posters have decided upon the latter.

In saying this:-

(any hand gesture along the lines of THIS IS SPARTA)



...youre defending Anelka from any accusation of anti-semitism or offence.
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Firstly...you're ignoring the accusations against me of anti-semitism. Those same posters have decided I am guilty of it. And I am not. All my posts are in my history...do any kind of search you like. I made a serious point with that.

Secondly....I'm not defending Anelka of anti-semitism or offence (offence has not yet been outlawed, judging by urban). He hasn't yet had a charge to answer.
 
DotCommunist said:
it was a very amusing joke to say the quennelle was merely a half 'up-yours' but nobody could mean that seriously could they? It makes no sense. It's like saying sieg hieling is just reaching for a high shelf
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Or "oh look, Dioudonne is pointing at his shoes again".
 
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DexterTCN said:
Firstly...you're ignoring the accusations against me of anti-semitism. Those same posters have decided I am guilty of it. And I am not. All my posts are in my history...do any kind of search you like. I made a serious point with that.

Secondly....I'm not defending Anelka of anti-semitism or offence (offence has not yet been outlawed, judging by urban). He hasn't yet had a charge to answer.
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Up to date as ever. Didn't notice the fa charges at all?
 
I don't think anyone's accused you of antisemitism :confused: I don't think you're antisemitic, if I did then you'd know about it.
 
By the way apologists for antisemites (or whoever) don't have to be antisemitic, racist, sexist etc themselves, they can just be a bit stupid, or not want to believe bad things about whoever the person is (like if they're say a famous footballer)

Its like the SWP and all the party loyalists who had worked on women's issues for years not wanting to believe comrade delta was a rapist
 
frogwoman said:
By the way apologists for antisemites (or whoever) don't have to be antisemitic, racist, sexist etc themselves, they can just be a bit stupid, or not want to believe bad things about whoever the person is (like if they're say a famous footballer)

Its like the SWP and all the party loyalists who had worked on women's issues for years not wanting to believe comrade delta was a rapist
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What?

'apologists for anti-semites' are like refusing to believe someone is a rapist?

I'm not getting you. I know you were just typing what you were thinking and it came out a bit wrong, I'm not taking cheap shots. What did you mean?
 
DexterTCN said:
What?

'apologists for anti-semites' are like refusing to believe someone is a rapist?

I'm not getting you. I know you were just typing what you were thinking and it came out a bit wrong, I'm not taking cheap shots. What did you mean?
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I get what frogwoman means - don't take someone's word on blind trust, just because they say they're not what they are (accurately) being pulled up on. Again, Anelka's excuse/"explanation" is incredibly lame - as I said in my very first post here, he's either a blundering idiot at the very least, or a definite anti-Semite at the worst.
 
MellySingsDoom said:
I get what frogwoman means - don't take someone's word on blind trust, just because they say they're not what they are (accurately) being pulled up on. Again, Anelka's excuse/"explanation" is incredibly lame - as I said in my very first post here, he's either a blundering idiot at the very least, or a definite anti-Semite at the worst.
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He's mates with a man who does holocaust songs and is one of the most famous anti-semites in France. How on earth wouldn't he know what the gesture meant? What do they talk about when they meet up? Free kick techniques?
 
DexterTCN said:
What?

'apologists for anti-semites' are like refusing to believe someone is a rapist?

I'm not getting you. I know you were just typing what you were thinking and it came out a bit wrong, I'm not taking cheap shots. What did you mean?
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I mean that if you're so convinced that someone isn't an antisemite in spite of all the evidence clearly showing they are (you saying that dieudonne isn't and the quenelle isn't) then the logic is a bit like - 'antisemites are cunts - I like anelka - anelka isn't a cunt - Anelkas mate isn't a cunt - neither of them are antisemitic'

Its like those swappies who have been in the SWP for so long they confuse their liking for comrade delta with whether he could be guilty, because they like him and they don't like what he's accused of, therefore he couldn't have done it
 
DexterTCN said:
Firstly...you're ignoring the accusations against me of anti-semitism. Those same posters have decided I am guilty of it. And I am not. All my posts are in my history...do any kind of search you like. I made a serious point with that.

Secondly....I'm not defending Anelka of anti-semitism or offence (offence has not yet been outlawed, judging by urban). He hasn't yet had a charge to answer.
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I accept that you may not have realised it, but by using that single word, "similar", means that, in that context, you were specifically defending Anelka from the charge that he "made a gesture that was "abusive and/or indecent and/or insulting and/or improper" which was "an aggravated breach in that it included a reference to ethnic origin and/or race and/or religion or belief."
 
MellySingsDoom said:
I get what frogwoman means - don't take someone's word on blind trust, just because they say they're not what they are (accurately) being pulled up on. Again, Anelka's excuse/"explanation" is incredibly lame - as I said in my very first post here, he's either a blundering idiot at the very least, or a definite anti-Semite at the worst.
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Well Dieudonne is famous for antisemitism, he does songs about the holocaust, he campaigns on antisemitic political themes, he always goes on about Jews and has sketches where he takes the piss out of people in the holocaust and I'm sorry there's no way you could be his mate and not know this, I mean what do you think they talk about when they meet up??
 
frogwoman said:
Well Dieudonne is famous for antisemitism, he does songs about the holocaust, he campaigns on antisemitic political themes, he always goes on about Jews and has sketches where he takes the piss out of people in the holocaust and I'm sorry there's no way you could be his mate and not know this, I mean what do you think they talk about when they meet up??
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yeh, but other than that, how could it be offensive....
 
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