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Anelka's quenelle

The intent is irrelevant, it's how something is received, whether it be sexist, racist, homophobic or anti-semitic. To try and claim otherwise is ridiculous.

I am absolutely disgusted that anti-semitism is once again appearing on urban.
 
ViolentPanda said:
The support of the state of Israel isn't about oil, it's about the US having a strategic interest in Israel as a bulwark against Islamic interests, and as a physical beachhead into the wider Middle East and north Africa if that's ever necessary.
remember that those staging posts that the US do have in the M.E and N.A exist on sufferance, and often on the fact that those states are not democratically-run.

"The Israel Lobby" doesn't set foreign policy, but it does work to bring wider US geo-strategic objectives and the objectives of the state of Israel into harmony.
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Id agree in parts, except the US was supporting the zionists just as strongly when the major perceived threat to both interests was secular Arab nationalism and not islamism..indeed it was a much more serious threat . I also believe oil is pretty crucial too . But apart from that I agree, theyre supported primarily because of their strategic location . They also owe a lot of their prominence to their ability to put a human, moralising face on a grubby imperial exercise . To invest it with a moral crusade, good white europeans surrounded by hostile darky barbarians, plucky homesteaders keeping the holy land white and civilised .

Despite that the zionists will end up like the north koreans should US geopolitical interests shift . Barely tolerated by their former sponsors, skint and starving but a nuclear capable mad dog threatening everyone .
 
phildwyer said:
Not just from an anarchist perspective.

Alan Dershowitz has been pushing this line hard in recent years. The argument runs as follows:

"All peoples have a right to self-determination; but anti-Zionists deny this right to the Jews alone; therefore anti-Zionism is anti-semitism."

It's obviously a crap argument, and I doubt you need me to tell you why. But I will if you like.
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no, please don't. life's too short etc
 
equationgirl said:
The intent is irrelevant, it's how something is received, whether it be sexist, racist, homophobic or anti-semitic. To try and claim otherwise is ridiculous.

I am absolutely disgusted that anti-semitism is once again appearing on urban.
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The quenelle is not anti semitic simply because of how it is recieved, it is anti semitic precisely because of it's origins and continued use, the fact that some people may claim they don't have that intent doesn't change that, likewise neither does the fact that many supporters of Israel receive many criticisms of its actions as anti semitic make them so.

Reducing meaning to individual intent or reception is post modern bullshit, though unfortunately all too common.

On one hand we have arseholes who engage in racist, sexist or anti semitic antics and then disavow them by appeals to their subjective intent, on the other you have the permanently offended arseholes who reduce politics to their personal feelings, two sides of the same irrationalist coin.
 
Casually Red said:
My take on it is its like DM boots in British culture. For the fash they were an indispensible part of fash expression and identity, an outwardly nazi symbol synonymous with everything they stood for . But for a lot of other people it meant something else entirely no matter how heavily they were identified with fascism as a symbol and attitude.

Im being accused of trolling here because I can see the difference in why people do it . My only beef is I cant stand the thought of ordinary people making an anti establishment gesture being smeared with the nazi brush. And I can see perfectly well why the deeply unpopular french political establishment would want to do that . And I can also see theyve pretty much succeeded .
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Shut up you stupid cunt, comparing it to wearing DM's, really...
 
equationgirl said:
The intent is irrelevant, it's how something is received, whether it be sexist, racist, homophobic or anti-semitic. To try and claim otherwise is ridiculous.

I am absolutely disgusted that anti-semitism is once again appearing on urban.
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Two things that pissed me off today, a guy we met was really sound until hr started talking during a conversation with him about 'the unanswered questions' about the holocaust which included who the Israelites are and about the new Jerusalem! And a woman from work who saw me giving out leaflets and thought I was working for an organization rather than just being a protester!
 
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Casually Red said:
bullshit, it began in a sketch about dolphins, who have no arms . Its also necessary to stiffen ones arm somewhat if your sticking it up someones backside

obama-en-quenelle-448x293.jpg


i suppose the eagles in the background diminish somewhat the plausible deniability of these people doing their unmistakable nazi salute
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What's that all about?
 
People are really complacent about anti semitism in the Uk because it really isn't a political force indeed the last time it got any media coverage was Baddiel's idiotic attempt to stop Spurs fans calling themselves the Yid army.
 
revol68 said:
People are really complacent about anti semitism in the Uk because it really isn't a political force indeed the last time it got any media coverage was Baddiel's idiotic attempt to stop Spurs fans calling themselves the Yid army.
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It wasnt an attempt you fuckwit, he succeeded. Spurs fans were arrested for it .
 
revol68 said:
Reducing meaning to individual intent or reception is post modern bullshit, though unfortunately all too common.

On one hand we have arseholes who engage in racist, sexist or anti semitic antics and then disavow them by appeals to their subjective intent,.
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such as the spurs fans you were defending there, just a minute ago, you cock
 
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