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Anelka's quenelle

frogwoman said:
I have experienced anti semitic comments in the past from Muslim people, unfortunately nobody is immune from that kind of stupidity. I've also heard anti Muslim and homophobic shit from Jews, being from a group that gets persecuted doesn't mean you can't be a cunt. The alignment with the far right and the left that seems to be going on is quite scary.
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Yeah the notion that "oppression" gives some sort of empathy or special insight in and of itself is pretty naive.
 
Wilf said:
Have a feeling this 'gesture' might get picked up by a few of the fans when spurs are the opposition. Wonder if plod/ the clubs/other fans will react?
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Us Baggies fans don't much like shit like that tbf

'Thanks Lokomotiv' being a case in point (even if Odemwingie did turn out to be a bit of an arse)
 
frogwoman said:
Great so at least four managers I know of/mates know of personally plus this overpaid twat plus other billionaire celebs are fighting against the establishment . I know you don't think this mate but does my fuckin head in
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I'm not surprised it does your head in. The most infuriating thing, and it must be 10 times more infuriating for you, is reading comments on news stories by people defending Anelka on the grounds that 'oh but it's not a fascist solute'. The same with DiCanio and his wayward arm being a 'traditional Roman greeting' or some other such bullshit. If people are going to be anti-Semites they should fucking well say it. My response to that sort of disingenuous twattery is to go "well in that case, I'm not calling you a racist cunt who should fuck off and die. No really, I'm not doing that. Oh no sir".
 
cynicaleconomy said:
I'm not surprised it does your head in. The most infuriating thing, and it must be 10 times more infuriating for you, is reading comments on news stories by people defending Anelka on the grounds that 'oh but it's not a fascist solute'. The same with DiCanio and his wayward arm being a 'traditional Roman greeting' or some other such bullshit. If people are going to be anti-Semites they should fucking well say it. My response to that sort of disingenuousness is to go "well in that case, I'm not calling you a racist cunt who should fuck off and die. No really, I'm not doing that. Oh no sir".
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Someone actually told me that the interim ruler of Egypt Al-Sisi is Jewish but insisted that saying that wasn't anti Semitic because he had no problem with Jews he was just upset that he wasn't being honest about being Jewish. Fucking idiocy.
 
J Ed said:
Someone actually told me that the interim ruler of Egypt Al-Sisi is Jewish but insisted that saying that wasn't anti Semitic because he had no problem with Jews he was just upset that he wasn't being honest about being Jewish. Fucking idiocy.
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That's some seriously bonkers mental gymnastics right there.
 
revol68 said:
Always hilarious seeing lefties get confused when confronted with a far right that talks up its anti establishment and supports "oppressed nations" like the Palestinians. Maybe its because much of the left has essentially bought into crude anti imperialism and apologism for oppressed nationalisms.
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"oppressed nations" like the Palestinians. Why the quotes?
 
butchersapron said:
The latter. You've had pretty clear demonstrations of that all day. Are you challenging them?
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I know it's the latter, what I'm challenging is revol68 equating the two. Anti-establishment with anti-Semitic. How funny it is that some lefties get in a spin when some righties use the struggle of "oppressed nations" as a means to an end.
 
LiamO said:
Can anyone point me to something that shows the point this 'comedian' is actually trying to make rather than the myriad of pieces showing what various interest groups have decided he is trying to make?
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Can you expand on what point you think this comedian is actually trying to make as opposed to what interest groups have decided he is saying?
 
Buckaroo said:
So this quenelle gesture is an anti-establishment thing or an anti-Semitic thing or what?
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it's supposed to be both, that's the point. The kind of 'fuck you' gesture (as opposed to the sniggering coded anti-semitism of the people doing the quenelle in the photos linked to on this thread) works if your audience is the alienated and disenfranchised urban underclass that Dieudonné has been cultivating. Be interesting to hear more on this relationship:
According to one journalist “Dieudonné is a folk hero in these neighborhoods [les banlieues], which are populated largely by black and Arab immigrants—places where anti-Semitism is fed by secondhand Palestinian politics, Islamism, and alienation from French society. How much Dieudonné has done to ride (or to create) this wave has been a popular topic in France”.
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http://uniceone.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/anelka-gesture-politics-on-the-football-field/
 
I dunno. That's why I asked the question.

I was on my way to bed full of pints and a cursory google produced rent-a-quotes from talking heads. I figured someone would be along who knew some background.

I am always suspicious of tabloids crying 'RACIST'... so should you be. For example the Roy Hodgson 'Monkey' debacle... and all the shit 'I'm offended' from people who make their living being offended (like Lord fuck-face from 'Kick it Out' and that clown from the Black Law Society (or whatever the fuck group he has invented so he can head it this week).

So I asked the question. That clear enough for you?

Lots of people have since posted lots of incriminating stuff (thank you btw), although I have still to see...

a) what the 'Comedian' himself has to say.

b) In what context did this all start? And how has it evolved? For example both young black people from the ghettoes and the Front Nationale both going for it? WTF is that all about?

c) Has aforesaid 'comedian' made any attempt to distance himself from some of those who have adopted his apparently Trademarked sign. Or is he happy with how things have progressed?
It could be that Dieudonné, when he introduced his trademark (for a trademark it is, which brings him a substantial income through merchandising) in his 2004 one-man show, only meant it as a building-block in the manufacturing of his stage persona.

It could be that the tens of thousands of youngsters who’ve adopted the quenelle see no harm whatsoever in mimicking their favourite comedian.

They may see it as a means to express their refusal to be a slave of the ‘system’, whatever ‘system’ may mean, more often than not a concatenation of ‘causes’ such as anti-globalisation, Green politics, anti-parliamentarism, ultra-nationalism and ‘anti-zionism’.
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d) what has changed/how has the situation evolved since a white player made this sign after scoring in the French Cup Final (which I assume is a major event in France) and now that Anelka has done it in an EPL game (which I assume is not actually that big an event in France)?
 
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Nice one said:
it's supposed to be both, that's the point. The kind of 'fuck you' gesture (as opposed to the sniggering coded anti-semitism of the people doing the quenelle in the photos linked to on this thread) works if your audience is the alienated and disenfranchised urban underclass that Dieudonné has been cultivating. Be interesting to hear more on this relationship:

http://uniceone.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/anelka-gesture-politics-on-the-football-field/
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Thanks Nice one . That's a bit more explanatory. And also explains why the french tabloids jumped all over Anelka but said little when the white footballer made the same gesture

His friendship with Anelka seems genuine, but one based on a shared political philosophy? As far back as 2010 the connection between the two had already been established with a debate on French TV entitled “Anelka is the Dieudonné of football?“ after Anelka’s ‘unpatriotic’ views on not wanting to sing the French national anthem during international games and highlighting the problems Muslim football players face. Anelka himself converted to Islam in 2004.
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LiamO said:
a) what the 'Comedian' himself has to say.

b) In what context did this all start?

c) Has aforesaid 'comedian' made any attempt to distance himself from some of those who have adopted his apparently Trademarked sign.
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Still? Someone who in the same political scene as batskin? There's asking and there's pretending not to see the answers. They are on this thread. You thanked people for them. Why didn't you bother reading them?
 
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Stop talking in tongues you tedious bore. Who is batskin when he is at home?

and your post needs some S's I think.
 
Nice one said:
it's supposed to be both, that's the point. The kind of 'fuck you' gesture (as opposed to the sniggering coded anti-semitism of the people doing the quenelle in the photos linked to on this thread) works if your audience is the alienated and disenfranchised urban underclass that Dieudonné has been cultivating. Be interesting to hear more on this relationship:

http://uniceone.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/anelka-gesture-politics-on-the-football-field/
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Who says that it's supposed to be both? What is the other part of the gesture - the anti-establishment component made of? They suggest that the two are the same and you endorse this logic in this post, so where is it? That's the danger of this bloody thing.
 
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Cheers for your input on this 'see things in my black & white way or I'll stamp my feet' thread butch
 
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