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Anelka's quenelle

ViolentPanda said:
How do you measure "too often"? Most of the anti-Zionists I've met and/or known (including in my own family) are Jews who are anti-Zionist for a complex of reasons around disagreeing with the principles (if you can call them that) of Herzl-ite Zionism; with the land theft, collective punishment (learned from the Mandate authorities, as well as from the Nazis) and murder practiced by the state of Israel and its antecedent organisations, and with the idea that the subjugation of an "alien" culture is ever a good idea. I grew up going to synagogues where otherwise-intelligent people spoke of "greater Israel" as though it had no human cost. I love my people, but I loath how some use the cloak of our culture to mask their own prejudices - or worse, don't believe that their prejudices are prejudices at all, because they can cite a historical "justification" for "repossessing" the ancient kingdoms of Judea and Samaria.
I utterly agree that some anti-Zionists are anti-Semites masking their anti-Semitism, but they're generally easily fitered from genuine anti-Zionists because of what they say, and the context within which they say it, by anyone who can be arsed to do so.
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I think that within the Jewish community things have changed a lot in the last couple of years, it is still the case that many people would say they were Zionists meaning they support Israel's to exist, but they might actually seriously oppose what its government does. Also there are lots of Israelis living in the country from a wide range of backgrounds and it's difficult for the Israeli government to say that it's like some paradise these days.
 
DexterTCN said:
My comments stand. I require more than a tabloid headline and some up-their-own-arses urbanites to convince me that Anelka is 'guilty' of anything.

I tend not to get involved once all the usual suspects troop in, it's pointless.

I'm not willing to participate in the customary shit-throwing fest that these threads rapidly become, I have no compulsion to argue with people I don't like.

I would add that what I said was that the tabloid link in the OP mentioned nazis, if VP wants to claim I accused an urbanite of being a nazi he should report it. Post #18
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You utter moron. No scratch that, your crap is worse than simply stupidity. If you can't/won't see the anti-semitic nature of this action then you're scum.
 
butchersapron said:
Anelka - i think you're racist because you're anti-semitic. Anti-racist racism. Fuck off, you got caught.
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So the scum who withheld wages from people where I used to work were actually committed anti racists fighting against the establishment, same with the manager who bullied my mate, and the bloke who came up to us on a blockade ofvshell we did a few years ago and demanded to know why we weren't doing anything about the Jews, nope all committed anti-racist anticapitalist fighters.
 
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The nutters on the street trying to harangue people into converting to Christianity by saying that Jews killed Jesus, homosexuality is a sin etc, all committed Marxist fighters as well. Great, where do I sign up?
 
ViolentPanda said:
Those who claim that anti-Zionism is never anti-Semitic are idiots. Of course anti-Zionism CAN be used as a tool for promoting anti-Semitism, and of course anti-Zionism IS used as a tool for promoting anti-Semitism.
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That is itself a powerful anti-Zionist argument.
 
butchersapron said:
I am so not fascist
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True enough. You share a surprising number positions in common with fascists though. I have to say that I was taken aback to hear your lines on crime, drugs, prostitution, Lee Rigby etc for example.

These are positions that are shared by the extreme left and the extreme right, but not by the middle. Not unlike whatever crap Anelka is on about in fact.

I am beginning to suspect that the extremes have more in common with each other than either does with the middle.
 
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phildwyer said:
I am beginning to suspect that the extremes have more in common with each other than either does with the middle.
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The extreme left does seem to attract a fair few who flirted with far right ideas in their youth and are now doing penance for their youthful stupidity.
 
frogwoman said:
Also Zionism is one of those words that means whatever you want it to mean.
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Not helped by the fact that some Zionists aren't honest about which faction of the tradition they come from, which leads others to assume that:
a) All Zionists and Zionisms are identical, and
b) Expressions of anti-Zionism refer to any manifestation of Zionism, when mostly what is referred to by Jewish anti-Zionists is the nationalist Zionisms practiced by the state of Israel and its precursor organisations.
 
frogwoman said:
So the scum who withheld wages from people where I used to work were actually committed anti racists fighting against the establishment, same with the manager who bullied my mate, and the bloke who came up to us on a blockade ofvshell we did a few years ago and demanded to know why we weren't doing anything about the Jews, nope all committed anti-racist anticapitalist fighters.
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So many fuckwads who don't grasp that anti-racism means being against all manifestations of racism (with "racism" obviously used here as a broad category encompassing race and culture).
As for anti-capitalism, modern anti-capitalism has always had an outriding band of conspiraloon fuckspuds who equate capitalism and capital with Jews, and see anti-capitalism as a good mask, or even a good equivalence for their anti-Semitic loonspuddery.
 
goldenecitrone said:
The extreme left does seem to attract a fair few who flirted with far right ideas in their youth and are now doing penance for their youthful stupidity.
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There is no functional difference between extreme left and extreme right. Stalin and Hitler were two sides of the same repressive and murderous coin.
 
It's not just at the extremes though, some middle ground eco-hippies in anti-roads protests were happy to share a platform with the blood and soil brigade. 'They care about the environment too!'
 
OK so black Muslims are "right wing extremists" now. What does that make the white Muslim and black hating fascists? What a load of fucking bollocks. This thread is just another guise for idiots to argue about the dick sizes. Fuck off.
 
Buckaroo said:
It's not just at the extremes though, some middle ground eco-hippies in anti-roads protests were happy to share a platform with the blood and soil brigade. 'They care about the environment too!'
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tbf there was an eco-conservatism streak within natsoc. frogwoman told me about this but when it explained it isn't that weird- sanctity of land nd blood etc.
 
Sasaferrato said:
There is no functional difference between extreme left and extreme right. Stalin and Hitler were two sides of the same repressive and murderous coin.
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Are you calling me a fascist then?

Come tell us more about what else I do that's functionally identicle to the far-right. Holocaust denial perhaps? Any examples of the far left-wingers here engaging in this?
 
ViolentPanda said:
Not helped by the fact that some Zionists aren't honest about which faction of the tradition they come from, which leads others to assume that:
a) All Zionists and Zionisms are identical, and
b) Expressions of anti-Zionism refer to any manifestation of Zionism, when mostly what is referred to by Jewish anti-Zionists is the nationalist Zionisms practiced by the state of Israel and its precursor organisations.
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Perhaps a change in terminology is required. Describe Zionists as ultra-nationalist. Whenj one thinks about it, there are many similarities between the Zionists and the Nazis in their outlook.
 
savoloysam said:
OK so black Muslims are "right wing extremists" now. What does that make the white Muslim and black hating fascists? What a load of fucking bollocks. This thread is just another guise for idiots to argue about the dick sizes. Fuck off.
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Yes, this entire thread has been dedicated to talking about how being black and Muslim makes you a fascist. Great job.
 
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