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Andy Coulson, the Met Police and Murdoch

An election now won't save any of them though. Only hanging on and hoping the economy turns round in/by 4 years time will. And they'd rather take their salary and pensions for the next four years than chuck it away for sure now. An early election is the last thing these careerists want.
 
butchersapron said:
An election now won't save any of them though. Only hanging on and hoping the economy turns round in/by 4 years time will. And they'd rather take their salary and pensions for the next four years than chuck it away for sure now. An early election is the last thing these careerists want.
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BA

Yep - cannot disagree with you there.

In fact ra big fail by the LDs in the locals is likely to entrench the tory lickspittles in parliament to tough it out for that very reason.

Noses in the troughs and up Cameron's arse time still.

C
 
hmm...interesting, let me ponder that. Do you really think they've got the balls (the LDs, that is) to tough it out through four years of pure, burning hatred?

The reason why I ask is - I doubt their spine. We picketed Lynne Featherstone's constituency office recently, as well as a protest at a local event she attended. She's a minister, and she looked terrified and awful - like she could pass out/collapse any minute. i've heard similar about other MPs in SW London (Brake and davey, from my mates there).

I'm thinking they've built up a dependency over the years on their self-image as the principled good guys (yeah, I know, a load of balls, but they believe it), and all the hatred that's gonna rain down on them will truly shatter them. It might just persuade enough to try a mass 'sinking ship ratting' exercise.

This is all new to them, - tories are old hands in handling being hated, it's practically a military medal to them. Not so LDs. I genuinely wonder if the bottle is there to tough it out
 
I think some of them still pin their hopes on establishing a 'centre-left' alternative, the founding myth of which will be a 'principled' stand on some civil liberties issue leading to a split.
 
Streathamite said:
hmm...interesting, let me ponder that. Do you really think they've got the balls (the LDs, that is) to tough it out through four years of pure, burning hatred?

The reason why I ask is - I doubt their spine. We picketed Lynne Featherstone's constituency office recently, as well as a protest at a local event she attended. She's a minister, and she looked terrified and awful - like she could pass out/collapse any minute. i've heard similar about other MPs in SW London (Brake and davey, from my mates there).

I'm thinking they've built up a dependency over the years on their self-image as the principled good guys (yeah, I know, a load of balls, but they believe it), and all the hatred that's gonna rain down on them will truly shatter them. It might just persuade enough to try a mass 'sinking ship ratting' exercise.

This is all new to them, - tories are old hands in handling being hated, it's practically a military medal to them. Not so LDs. I genuinely wonder if the bottle is there to tough it out
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It depends on whether Clegg stays in place to be honest. Additionally there is only so many "made up - phoney baloney" jobs that could be used to buy off the likes of Hughes et al.

My reasoning is simplified - the LDs are supporting the Conservatives in everytghing they do and whatever they bleat on about "having their say and influence in policy" the reality is little more than sound bites and crumbs from the top table.

The LDs are enjoying "power" for the first and last time in living memory - they will not want to go to the electorate now or any time in the future despite the discomfort of many. The Torygraph LD surgery ambushes are history now - so whatever the personal feelings of the LD elected - none have publicly challenged where the party is being led.

I worked in and aroung the House of Commons from 1987 till 2004 and to see the "chosen" ones at work is dispiriting. From recollection I would say the first question asked by a backbencher after elevation to a ministerial post is "What type of car do I get?" and local memory from those in the know was of one of Maggies nonces was "A Rover 416 - I want a Jaguar". They like the priveliges and even if the PM has sliced the official chauffeured cars to bits they want all that goes with the position. So if they feel that they can have a 5 year run of grace and favour then why not expect them to do it. Don Foster down in the Bath constituency is getting loads of flak but riding it out. The newer LD MPs will be easily led.
It woud need the grass roots to change the coalition agreement - Clegg will not do it.

C
 
One thing I should've said in my previous post; I expect this implosion to come in the form of a grassroots revolt, led by councillors and activists. I do NOT expect it to come from LD ministers, and not primarily from MPs. so 'they' in that post refers mainly to the former groups, a significant number of whom are going top get their first ever real taste of a local elections catastrophe in four months time
 
Streathamite said:
One thing I should've said in my previous post; I expect this implosion to come in the form of a grassroots revolt, led by councillors and activists. I do NOT expect it to come from LD ministers, and not primarily from MPs. so 'they' in that post refers mainly to the former groups, a significant number of whom are going top get their first ever real taste of a local elections catastrophe in four months time
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There are some councillors plotting. Question is whether they can succeed. Thread here.
 
The LDs are enjoying "power" for the first and last time in living memory
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No - Clegg and his Orange Book mob are 'enjoying' power; seemingly the left-leaning bit of the Lib-dems aren't, if the YouGov poll that said '80% of Lib-dems don't trust Clegg' is anything to go by.
 
Streathamite said:
One thing I should've said in my previous post; I expect this implosion to come in the form of a grassroots revolt, led by councillors and activists. I do NOT expect it to come from LD ministers, and not primarily from MPs. so 'they' in that post refers mainly to the former groups, a significant number of whom are going top get their first ever real taste of a local elections catastrophe in four months time
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kyser_soze said:
No - Clegg and his Orange Book mob are 'enjoying' power; seemingly the left-leaning bit of the Lib-dems aren't, if the YouGov poll that said '80% of Lib-dems don't trust Clegg' is anything to go by.
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Agree about the grass root level. There is a growing number of local LD activists who talk a good "gunpowder plot" in the pub but I await whether they will target Don Foster from inside the local groups.

Whether there is a distrust of Clegg or not - no one has come out to directly challenge where he has led them to date. Bribery and early elevation to Under Secretary of Sttate for the noisiest.

C
 
It'll be interesting to see if the next series of The Thick Of It does anything to do with Coulson, where the Malcolms of this world become the news.
 
True, but not with the Murdochian connection.

Iannucci's said that the hung parliament threw a lot of their ideas for the next series in the dustbin, but knowing his past form I'm sure he'll come with something on a similar level of genius.
 
That particular story wasn't in the paper version of Saturday's Guardian** -- fascinaing stuff :eek:

ETA : **That's because they're Observer people -- but the online article was dated Sat and flagged as Guardian :oops:
Obs said:
Heard the one about the assistant editor running a business from his desk importing vodka and other goods from eastern Europe? It's on the tapes.
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:D :D
 
Gordon Brown apparently approached the police to see if his phone was hacked when he was at the treasury.

Some of those complaining make me eugh .... some of them .. why would anyone want to hack their phones!?

However, why were there not similar outrages back when people used analogue mobiles which could be listenned in to with a scanner? or were there?
 
weltweit said:
Gordon Brown apparently approached the police to see if his phone was hacked when he was at the treasury.

Some of those complaining make me eugh .... some of them .. why would anyone want to hack their phones!?

However, why were there not similar outrages back when people used analogue mobiles which could be listenned in to with a scanner? or were there?
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I think it's covered by broadly similar laws - although you have to actually catch people at it for there to be outrage. A lot of the technology for this is fairly recent - this scam is based on being able to pick up messages remotely, which is a fairly recent technology, at least in terms of being widespread enough to be of use to a 'journalist'.

The CPS made a fucking bizarre excuse for reopening the investigation. Previously, you see, they had interpreted the law to mean that it was only illegal to listen to other people's phone messages if they hadn't already listened to them themselves. Now, remarkably, they think they've found some wiggle room to make a case for it being a bit fucking dodgy regardless. Funny that .... It should be quite interesting to watch the Met and the CPS try to extract themselves from the corrupt little mess they've made for themselves.
 
ymu said:
The CPS made a fucking bizarre excuse for reopening the investigation. Previously, you see, they had interpreted the law to mean that it was only illegal to listen to other people's phone messages if they hadn't already listened to them themselves. Now, remarkably, they think they've found some wiggle room to make a case for it being a bit fucking dodgy regardless.
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That was always a bizarre and feeble "oh fuck make it go away" response from the CPS.

There was always a case to be brought, I submit, under the Computer Misuse Act 1990:

1) A person is guilty of an offence if—


(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer [amended 2006 to add:, or to enable any such access to be secured] ;

(b) the access he intends to secure [F2, or to enable to be secured,] is unauthorised; and

(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.
​
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Of course there's always been a case. It's fucking ridiculously transparent. Still, it makes for a better chance of flushing out some bent coppers now too, as they have no hope of containing this. Every cloud and all that. :)
 
ymu said:
Of course there's always been a case. It's fucking ridiculously transparent. Still, it makes for a better chance of flushing out some bent coppers now too, as they have no hope of containing this. Every cloud and all that. :)
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Perhaps, though I would hazard a guess that now Coulson has gone the pressure will let up a great deal - after all, as has been said (both here and in the Guardian article above) the dark arts extend over almost all of the print media, and if anything what happened at the NOTW was some ways towards the minor end of what was going on. Its certainly not in the papers interest for that to be exposed, and one imagines (given how previous investigations have fared) that it wont be in many politicians interests either.
 
agricola said:
Perhaps, though I would hazard a guess that now Coulson has gone the pressure will let up a great deal - after all, as has been said (both here and in the Guardian article above) the dark arts extend over almost all of the print media, and if anything what happened at the NOTW was some ways towards the minor end of what was going on. Its certainly not in the papers interest for that to be exposed, and one imagines (given how previous investigations have fared) that it wont be in many politicians interests either.
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You're forgetting the rather large number of very angry, and mostly very rich, celebs who aren't as afraid of News Corp as the politicians are and aren't as much in their pockets as the cops are. It's also a very useful weapon in the battle to stop Murdoch taking over BSkyB. I don't think it's going away any time soon.
 
Common opinion seems to be that Coulson will go to News Corp in America. After Piers Moron, perhaps they can take all our tabloid journalists and return the favour for Iraq.
 
ymu said:
You're forgetting the rather large number of very angry, and mostly very rich, celebs who aren't as afraid of News Corp as the politicians are and aren't as much in their pockets as the cops are. It's also a very useful weapon in the battle to stop Murdoch taking over BSkyB. I don't think it's going away any time soon.
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Most of those celebs depend to an extent on the papers though, or at least they depend on the PR industry which depends on the papers - hence why all the bad practice (of which, as I said above, this is a very mild example) continues to go on despite fairly regular severe impacts on the lives of the celebs concerned; lets face it if they were that angry then they would have kicked off long before now. The current numbers probably have more to do with lawyers smelling large settlements for not that much work, tbh.
 
agricola said:
Most of those celebs depend to an extent on the papers though, or at least they depend on the PR industry which depends on the papers - hence why all the bad practice (of which, as I said above, this is a very mild example) continues to go on despite fairly regular severe impacts on the lives of the celebs concerned; lets face it if they were that angry then they would have kicked off long before now. The current numbers probably have more to do with lawyers smelling large settlements for not that much work, tbh.
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Well, having 3000 celebs try to screw their £million hush money out of Murdoch would be fun, but it's gone way beyond that. Not least the CPS being forced to pretend a bit harder that they're going to take it seriously, and surely no way the Met can now escape independent scrutiny over their handling of it so far. AFAIK, there is no need for a victim to press charges in order to bring a prosecution, and no longer any excuses not to prosecute.
 
agricola said:
Most of those celebs depend to an extent on the papers though, or at least they depend on the PR industry which depends on the papers - hence why all the bad practice (of which, as I said above, this is a very mild example) continues to go on despite fairly regular severe impacts on the lives of the celebs concerned; lets face it if they were that angry then they would have kicked off long before now. The current numbers probably have more to do with lawyers smelling large settlements for not that much work, tbh.
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true - but why should John Prescott, Simon Hughes, Max Clifford and Elle McPherson be running scared of the Wapping skinheads?
 
Either I'm not getting the full deal here or the Met have acted way, way beyond what's acceptable; apart from everything that went before (and that was far too much anyway), Gordon Brown wrote 6 months ago to Scotland Yard about his phone calls being accessed while he was Chancellor of the Exchequer and hasn't even had a reply?

Jesus, can you imagine if someone in the markets had known of this wheeze.

This is hugely serious stuff and the Met have just sat on it.
 
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