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Americans: why don't you use kettles?

Talking of e-numbers... I'm not ashamed to say I went through the obligatory Sunny D phase when it came over here in the 90s. That was fun.

With hindsight, fucking vile stuff.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Pressure's the key to good coffee, I think. The water can't just drain through the grains using gravity. It has to be pushed through as hard as it can.
Click to expand...

No, that's a myth. The simple key to good coffee is the balance between speed of delivery and saturation of grounds. For a french press/caffetiere you use a relatively coarse grind and let it steep longer, for espresso you use a fine grind because otherwise the pressure and short period of time the grounds are exposed wouldn't allow you to extract the oils properly. Most espresso machines are over-pressured (for speed and big numbers on the machine I suppose), the best ones run at around 9 bar iirc, not the 16 bar you'll get on anything below £400.
 
The article I posted above about the creator of the Aeropress goes through that, about how it's about saturation and speed etc. And temperature is important too.

Cold press is nice, it avoids bitterness entirely because the chemical reaction the grounds are exposed to when saturated with hot water just isn't present. It means you have to steep it for hours, though. It's an overnight process, but you can do a batch and have it last a week or two, with little degradation in quality.
 
Cid said:
No, that's a myth. The simple key to good coffee is the balance between speed of delivery and saturation of grounds. For a french press/caffetiere you use a relatively coarse grind and let it steep longer, for espresso you use a fine grind because otherwise the pressure and short period of time the grounds are exposed wouldn't allow you to extract the oils properly. Most espresso machines are over-pressured (for speed and big numbers on the machine I suppose), the best ones run at around 9 bar iirc, not the 16 bar you'll get on anything below £400.
Click to expand...
Balance of pressure and saturation, according to VP's link.

I began just by tasting the coffee, and I found that 175 degree water made the best-tasting coffee with a pour over, which is well below boiling. But I was troubled by the fact that the drip-through took about four or five minutes. I believe that if lower temperature makes the coffee sweeter, a shorter time will as well. I tried pushing with various instruments down on this slurry of coffee in the cone, and it did absolutely nothing. Pressing on it didn’t shorten the time at all. I realized that I had to contain it somehow in an airtight chamber so I could apply pressure to shorten the time. So I drew a sketch and I made something in my shop. And it just tasted delicious. It tasted so much less bitter than regular drip coffee.
Click to expand...

Pressure to shorten the time does appear to be at least one key element, and that's certainly my experience. You can't make espresso-style coffee using a cafetiere.

But fair enough. It seems you can have too much pressure.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Balance of pressure and saturation, according to VP's link.



Pressure to shorten the time does appear to be at least one key element, and that's certainly my experience. You can't make espresso-style coffee using a cafetiere.
Click to expand...

I think that's more or less just about, as you say, shortening the time, rather than the pressure itself being a key part of the process. It's an equation, and you can adjust one or more of the factors as long as you adjust the others to compensate. So you can adjust the size of the grind, but you have to adjust the length of time the water will be in contact with it accordingly. So in the process of creating a gadget that was quick, simple, easy to use and clean, he realised pressure was needed to get that water through the ground coffee quickly enough that it didn't have the chance to become bitter. At the same time, part of that is your responsibility, in making sure your coffee is ground to the correct size, or the water will pass through too fast, or not fast enough.
 
Vintage Paw said:
I think that's more or less just about, as you say, shortening the time, rather than the pressure itself being a key part of the process. It's an equation, and you can adjust one or more of the factors as long as you adjust the others to compensate. So you can adjust the size of the grind, but you have to adjust the length of time the water will be in contact with it accordingly. So in the process of creating a gadget that was quick, simple, easy to use and clean, he realised pressure was needed to get that water through the ground coffee quickly enough that it didn't have the chance to become bitter. At the same time, part of that is your responsibility, in making sure your coffee is ground to the correct size, or the water will pass through too fast, or not fast enough.
Click to expand...
Right that makes sense. I'm learning here. So with an espresso, you get stronger coffee because the grains are much finer, so more surface area touches the water? But if the water stays too long in the coffee, that is what produces the bitterness?
 
Remember the person in the old-timey van who used to come around selling cordial back in the olden days? I can't remember the brand. Started with a G?
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Right that makes sense. I'm learning here. So with an espresso, you get stronger coffee because the grains are much finer, so more surface area touches the water? But if the water stays too long in the coffee, that is what produces the bitterness?
Click to expand...

I believe so, more or less, yes. And because the grind is so fine, it takes a lot of pressure to get the water through fast enough, which is why there are all these fancy expensive machines.

Oh why has quoad forsaken us?
 
Glitter said:
Kettleless Americans, I have a question. On weekdays when you're going to work what do you do about your morning brew? Surely if you're going to be out all day there's no point firing up the coffee machine to make loads.* Wouldn't boiling the kettle to make one cup before leaving be better?

I don't drink tea either but I always have a coffee first thing.



*and bleurgh at doing that and drinking it when it's been out all day anyway but that's by the by.
Click to expand...

You can set coffee makers to make different amounts, like one or two cups, or you can get a two cup coffee maker, or as yuwipi mentioned the notorious Keurig :eek:
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Balance of pressure and saturation, according to VP's link.



Pressure to shorten the time does appear to be at least one key element, and that's certainly my experience. You can't make espresso-style coffee using a cafetiere.

But fair enough. It seems you can have too much pressure.
Click to expand...

Exactly, that's what I mean - pressure controls your time. For a given machine type increasing the pressure will increase the speed you get your coffee, but will also have negative side-effects - you can end up with an extraction that's too hot (bitterness) and too quick (not getting the most out of your coffee). Espresso is designed to be fast, but it's not designed to be ridiculously fast.
 
I went to a Williams-Sonoma when I was in America. They had lots of interesting and expensive things. What I was impressed with was their range of 'water heater' gadgets. They were basically kettles but a lot fancier. They had thermostats and timers and settings and all sorts of things. So you could heat your water to exactly the right temperature for your perfect cup of aeropress coffee, or not-quite-boiling for a nice fruit tea, etc. I really quite wanted one.

Like this:

img2o.jpg
 
I mean, that's a Breville, so surely I should be able to get one over here?

I think I need one.

*goes to google*
 
Vintage Paw said:
I went to a Williams-Sonoma when I was in America. They had lots of interesting and expensive things. What I was impressed with was their range of 'water heater' gadgets. They were basically kettles but a lot fancier. They had thermostats and timers and settings and all sorts of things. So you could heat your water to exactly the right temperature for your perfect cup of aeropress coffee, or not-quite-boiling for a nice fruit tea, etc. I really quite wanted one.

Like this:

img2o.jpg
Click to expand...
Breville is an Australian company (although there is some split off in Europe).
 
Do Americans put milk in their coffee? I think a lot of British people think instant coffee is acceptable because they spoil it with milk anyway. I've never met a black coffee drinker who thought instant was better. Drip coffee's shit but at least it's coffee.
 
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Vintage Paw said:
What I meant was that we generally get Breville products over here anyway, so it's not like it was some obscure American company.
Click to expand...
I see.Breville sold the brand in Europe and are UK based but they have no connection with the Oz company which sells in the U.S. and other parts of the world.Their design centre is in Sydney.
 
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