Amazon Watch Thread

[NoXion]

* Look at how insulin and other lifesaving drugs have been distributed and exploited for profit. They've mostly been distributed, not on need, but on ability to pay. Why would I think this will be different.

But that's not an argument against developing life-saving drugs, is it? Likewise with life extension.

It is a strong argument for abolishing capitalism, though. Or at the very least, an argument for not making access to medical care contingent on wealth.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

But that's not an argument against developing life-saving drugs, is it? Likewise with life extension.

It is a strong argument for abolishing capitalism, though. Or at the very least, an argument for not making access to medical care contingent on wealth.

I agree. I'm not against life extension research, per se. I just don't want Bezos and his ilk in charge of it.

 

[StakerOne]

Is life extension a noble cause?

Imagine if the ultra-rich, who have exploited the majority of people on the planet for generations, suddenly lived for 150 years or more. Life expectancy is dropping for most of us, while its still expanding for those with wealth and access. The zip code disparity in life expectancy is a very real thing. For example, in my city, the average life expectancy of someone in my neighborhood is in the mid-50s (54, if I remember correctly). In the wealthiest neighborhood, the average life expectancy is 92. A difference of 38 years in the space of 50 blocks.

So, the next generation will see the average person live for 50 years, while an elite lives for multiples of that. They've saved wealth for themselves, why wouldn't they save life extension for themselves?* Afterall, we're very replaceable. At its core, Bezo's quest for life extension is just another narcissistic outlet for his ego.

If Bezos is successful, it will create a whole new ruling class, that will rule for generations. Meanwhile, life will become more difficult for the majority as climate change advances. Real life increasingly looks like a dystopian novel.

* Look at how insulin and other lifesaving drugs have been distributed and exploited for profit. They've mostly been distributed, not on need, but on ability to pay. Why would I think this will be different.

Life expectancy is going down because people are eating complete shite.

Insulin wouldnt be an issue if people got their blood sugars under control by going ketogenic for long enough to be fat adapted.

Healthy workers are in the interests of everyone.

Carbon60, Resvotarol and NMN which are affordable to many, have a significant effect t - at least on lab rats!

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Life expectancy is going down because people are eating complete shite.

Insulin wouldnt be an issue if people got their blood sugars under control by going ketogenic for long enough to be fat adapted.

Healthy workers are in the interests of everyone.

Carbon60, Resvotarol and NMN which are affordable to many, have a significant effect t - at least on lab rats!

Most of our decline in life expectancy is due to "diseases of despair" like suicide, drug overdoses, cirrhosis, and other risky behaviors.

But COVID is far from the only explanation for America’s dismal trend line. The pandemic accounted for about half the decline in life expectancy, according to the CDC. “Unintentional injuries,” a category that includes drug overdoses, contributed an additional 16%, followed by heart disease (4.1%), chronic liver disease and cirrhosis (3%) and suicide (2.1%).

Much of the rise in diseases of despair is due to economic disparities:

Those factors haven’t occurred in a vacuum. They’re connected to what the CDC called “the social determinants of health” — “economic policies and systems, development agendas, social norms, social policies, racism, climate change and political systems.”

Americans with the shortest life expectancies “tend to have the most poverty, face the most food insecurity, and have less or no access to healthcare,” Robert H. Shmerling of Harvard Medical School wrote in October. “Additionally, groups with lower life expectancy tend to have higher-risk jobs that can’t be performed virtually, live in more crowded settings, and have less access to vaccination, which increases the risk of becoming sick with or dying of COVID-19.”

The most important governing factor is economics, observes Jeremy Ney, an expert in graphically displaying social and economic disparities.

“There’s a really strong relationship between life expectancy and income,” Ney told me. “Income is tied in with a lot of other things, like your ability to afford healthcare, your housing security, your distance from a toxic chemical site, things like that.”

Column: America's decline in life expectancy speaks volumes about our problems

After decades of increasing longevity, Americans are facing shorter life spans than their predecessors and their rich-country peers. In states where Republicans set the agenda, it's even worse.

www.latimes.com

The food doesn't help either, but that's often what's cheap and doesn't require much prep work--something that's important for people who are working a couple of jobs and trying to care for kids as well.

 

[NoXion]

Insulin wouldnt be an issue if people got their blood sugars under control by going ketogenic for long enough to be fat adapted.

If the solution was as simple as saying "just go on a diet, bruh", then obesity wouldn't have reached epidemic proportions. Never mind that for various reasons, keto diets aren't going to be suitable for everyone. Some people are always going to need insulin, and that is why it's wrong for the stuff to cost an arm and a leg for the sake of pharmaceutical company profits.

Healthy workers are in the interests of everyone.

Try telling that the capitalists who overwork their employees while lobbying against alternatives to the for-profit medical insurance industry. Try telling that to the Tories trying to dismantle the NHS. They don't seem to have got the memo. Jeff Bezos doesn't seem concerned about the health implications of not allowing his Amazon workers adequate toilet breaks. Seems like quite a few of them, even the biggest, are quite happy to use us up and burn us out. Why do you think they're getting so worried about falling birthrates? It means they're going to be running out of disposable labour.

Carbon60, Resvotarol and NMN which are affordable to many, have a significant effect t - at least on lab rats!

And sometimes shit works in animal models but not in humans. On other hand, we know for a fact that insulin works.

 

[8ball]

Most of our decline in life expectancy is due to "diseases of despair" like suicide, drug overdoses, cirrhosis, and other risky behaviors.



Much of the rise in diseases of despair is due to economic disparities:

Column: America's decline in life expectancy speaks volumes about our problems

After decades of increasing longevity, Americans are facing shorter life spans than their predecessors and their rich-country peers. In states where Republicans set the agenda, it's even worse.

www.latimes.com

The food doesn't help either, but that's often what's cheap and doesn't require much prep work--something that's important for people who are working a couple of jobs and trying to care for kids as well.

I think diseases of despair and “eating complete shite” overlap and interact on a few levels.

There was that stat that on current trends, half of all US healthcare dollars will be spent on type 2 diabetes by (I think) 2040.

Not good for anyone, that.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think diseases of despair and “eating complete shite” overlap and interact on a few levels.

There was that stat that on current trends, half of all US healthcare dollars will be spent on type 2 diabetes by (I think) 2040.

Not good for anyone, that.

Yes, that's true. A lot of poorer neighborhoods don't have grocery stores nearby and rely on quick shops. Most of what they stock is non-perishable foods like chips, candy, and alcohol. Sometimes people don't feel safe to walk and get exercise nearby. In a way, I feel that Stakerone doesn't understand the challenges of being poor. Zip code matters.

 

[NoXion]

Yes, that's true. A lot of poorer neighborhoods don't have grocery stores nearby and rely on quick shops. Most of what they stock is non-perishable foods like chips, candy, and alcohol. Sometimes people don't feel safe to walk and get exercise nearby. In a way, I feel that Stakerone doesn't understand the challenges of being poor. Zip code matters.

"Food deserts" are a recognised problem. Imagine trying to stick to some fancy-arse diet plan, never mind simply a healthy diet, when the nearest food shops are all fuelling stations and off-licences.

 

[jeff_leigh]

Yes, that's true. A lot of poorer neighborhoods don't have grocery stores nearby and rely on quick shops. Most of what they stock is non-perishable foods like chips, candy, and alcohol. Sometimes people don't feel safe to walk and get exercise nearby. In a way, I feel that Stakerone doesn't understand the challenges of being poor. Zip code matters.

That’s fucking bonkers not having Grocery Stores in your neighbourhood, I live in a low income neighbourhood in the UK and there’s 3 good size stores all within walking distance

 

[StakerOne]

If the solution was as simple as saying "just go on a diet, bruh", then obesity wouldn't have reached epidemic proportions. Never mind that for various reasons, keto diets aren't going to be suitable for everyone. Some people are always going to need insulin, and that is why it's wrong for the stuff to cost an arm and a leg for the sake of pharmaceutical company profits.



Try telling that the capitalists who overwork their employees while lobbying against alternatives to the for-profit medical insurance industry. Try telling that to the Tories trying to dismantle the NHS. They don't seem to have got the memo. Jeff Bezos doesn't seem concerned about the health implications of not allowing his Amazon workers adequate toilet breaks. Seems like quite a few of them, even the biggest, are quite happy to use us up and burn us out. Why do you think they're getting so worried about falling birthrates? It means they're going to be running out of disposable labour.



And sometimes shit works in animal models but not in humans. On other hand, we know for a fact that insulin works.

Overworking staff isn't capitalism, it's naked greed.

If staff aren't overworked, it would still be capitalism.

Please pack in the lies and misinformation.

 

[StakerOne]

And sometimes shit works in animal models but not in humans. On other hand, we know for a fact that insulin works.

Insulin is quite nuanced. No excuse for it being overpriced, mind. I conceed at least for now, some people need it (Type 1 diabetes), but there are people who are given it, that don't need it ... many of those with type 2 diabetes.

 

[NoXion]

Overworking staff isn't capitalism, it's naked greed.

Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Nothing in that definition precludes exploitation. Indeed, exploitation is precisely how the profits are generated. You can make even more profits by overworking staff. If that wasn't the case, then there would be no need for there to be laws against it that do things like mandating breaks, maximum shift hours and sufficient time between shifts for workers to properly recover. Why pay two people an hourly wage, when you can get away with just paying the one (and poorly at that)? If the workers become ill due to overwork, just give them the sack and get some fresh new ones in, who you can also pay less due to them not having as much experience. It's win-win-win as far as being an amoral industrialist is concerned.

Workers sure as hell didn't start off enjoying these protections from the beginnings of capitalism, which is why in the 19th century we had children working long hours in factories under dangerous conditions. Did the factory owners change their ways out of the goodness of their hearts? Did they fuck! We can see even today in other countries with weaker labour and environmental protections, that industries are willing to take advantage of that, instead of improving conditions. Why would privately-owned for-profit enterprises spend any more money on wages and safe conditions than they absolutely have to, unless they are forced to do so by worker militancy, the strong arm of the state, or some combination of the two?

Greed is not just entirely compatible with capitalism, being greedy can also give an advantage. After all, greedy companies are willing to do the things that more ethical companies are not, and therefore stand to make more profits. Which at the end of the financial quarter are the only things which really matter.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That’s fucking bonkers not having Grocery Stores in your neighbourhood, I live in a low income neighbourhood in the UK and there’s 3 good size stores all within walking distance

Problem in the UK as well although I guess not the scale of US as its so much more spread out.

More than a million UK residents live in 'food deserts', says study

Experts say areas with limited access to cheap fresh food are fuelling health problems

www.theguardian.com

 

[StakerOne]

Yes, that's true. A lot of poorer neighborhoods don't have grocery stores nearby and rely on quick shops. Most of what they stock is non-perishable foods like chips, candy, and alcohol. Sometimes people don't feel safe to walk and get exercise nearby. In a way, I feel that Stakerone doesn't understand the challenges of being poor. Zip code matters.

...that needs to be qualified with "...the callenges of the poor in the United States."

Many but not all poor people in the UK, still live close to supermarkets.

I believe a lot of it is down to education. I wish people would research health a lot more on the internet rather than binge watch crap. I'm generalising about the western world.

We live in a free society. If people want to spend their years watching absolute junk, it's their right to do so. NOT that I'm blaming everyone who is overweight ... that would be a generalisation too far!

 

[NoXion]

Insulin is quite nuanced. No excuse for it being overpriced, mind. I conceed at least for now, some people need it (Type 1 diabetes), but there are people who are given it, that don't need it ... many of those with type 2 diabetes.

Since you're not a medical professional, what makes you think you have any authority in saying this?

 

[StakerOne]

Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Nothing in that definition precludes exploitation. Indeed, exploitation is precisely how the profits are generated. You can make even more profits by overworking staff. If that wasn't the case, then there would be no need for there to be laws against it that do things like mandating breaks, maximum shift hours and sufficient time between shifts for workers to properly recover. Why pay two people an hourly wage, when you can get away with just paying the one (and poorly at that)? If the workers become ill due to overwork, just give them the sack and get some fresh new ones in, who you can also pay less due to them not having as much experience. It's win-win-win as far as being an amoral industrialist is concerned.

Workers sure as hell didn't start off enjoying these protections from the beginnings of capitalism, which is why in the 19th century we had children working long hours in factories under dangerous conditions. Did the factory owners change their ways out of the goodness of their hearts? Did they fuck! We can see even today in other countries with weaker labour and environmental protections, that industries are willing to take advantage of that, instead of improving conditions. Why would privately-owned for-profit enterprises spend any more money on wages and safe conditions than they absolutely have to, unless they are forced to do so by worker militancy, the strong arm of the state, or some combination of the two?

Greed is not just entirely compatible with capitalism, being greedy can also give an advantage. After all, greedy companies are willing to do the things that more ethical companies are not, and therefore stand to make more profits. Which at the end of the financial quarter are the only things which really matter.

You haven't negated my point one bit.

Stop lying. Stop spreading misinformation.

Capitalism does not rely on exploitation.

If you take away any exploitation.

You're still left with :

CAPITALISM
(the best system mankind has known)
as opposed to
communism
(which is shit and has killed about 100 million and definately does rely on cruel exploitation)​

 

[StakerOne]

Since you're not a medical professional, what makes you think you have any authority in saying this?

It's call free speech. I know it's totally alien to a Stalin loving autocratic wet dreamer such as yourself, but still, I think you can get your head around it.

 

[teqniq]

Found another thread to shit all over have you?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

...that needs to be qualified with "...the callenges of the poor in the United States."

Many but not all poor people in the UK, still live close to supermarkets.

I believe a lot of it is down to education. I wish people would research health a lot more on the internet rather than binge watch crap. I'm generalising about the western world.

We live in a free society. If people want to spend their years watching absolute junk, it's their right to do so. NOT that I'm blaming everyone who is overweight ... that would be a generalisation too far!

Sure but eating well costs in both time and money. At least one of them anyway.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Capitalism does not rely on exploitation.

 

[NoXion]

You haven't negated my point one bit.

Stop lying. Stop spreading misinformation.

Capitalism does not rely on exploitation.

If you take away any exploitation.

You're still left with :

CAPITALISM
(the best system mankind has known)
as opposed to
communism
(which is shit and has killed about 100 million and definately does rely on cruel exploitation)​

I always know I'm dealing with an incisive political and economic genius whenever they start spamming a whole bunch of emoticons instead of making an argument. I wonder why Adam Smith and Karl Marx didn't think of doing that?

How is anything I've said misinformation? You know you need to do more than just shout "misinformation!!11!!" in order to actually establish that it's so.

Where do profits come from? How are they generated? Are industrialists motivated to clean up their act by their love for their fellow man, or do workers and/or the state have to force them to treat labour in a more civilised manner? Why is it that when workers aren't militant and the state is weak, industries go all cut-throat and shit, instead of taking up the slack?

 

[NoXion]

It's call free speech. I know it's totally alien to a Stalin loving autocratic wet dreamer such as yourself, but still, I think you can get your head around it.

Sure you can speak, but why should anyone listen? And what happens if someone were to take you at your word, and in the process negatively impact their health? Would you not feel any responsibility for speaking with authority on a subject you're not qualified in?

 

[StakerOne]

Sure you can speak, but why should anyone listen? And what happens if someone were to take you at your word, and in the process negatively impact their health? Would you not feel any responsibility for speaking with authority on a subject you're not qualified in?

You'd be an absolute idiot to take the word of one random person on the internet.

People say good, things, bad things and all sorts inbetween.

If you said to me that ABC cures XYZ and I thought that could be of benefit to me, then I would research it further. I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a load of ABCs on your say-so, qualified or not.

 

[NoXion]

You'd be an absolute idiot to take the word of one random person on the internet.

People say good, things, bad things and all sorts inbetween.

If you said to me that ABC cures XYZ and I thought that could be of benefit to me, then I would research it further. I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a load of ABCs on your say-so, qualified or not.

Who's research would you be looking up, though? That produced by those who are actually qualified, or would you look at some random shit on YouTube and Facebook?

None of which you've produced in support of your claim, by the way. We've only got your word so far. As you say, we'd be absolute idiots to take your word. So yeah, why should anyone listen to you again?

 

[StakerOne]

I always know I'm dealing with an incisive political and economic genius whenever they start spamming a whole bunch of emoticons instead of making an argument. I wonder why Adam Smith and Karl Marx didn't think of doing that?

How is anything I've said misinformation? You know you need to do more than just shout "misinformation!!11!!" in order to actually establish that it's so.

Where do profits come from? How are they generated? Are industrialists motivated to clean up their act by their love for their fellow man, or do workers and/or the state have to force them to treat labour in a more civilised manner? Why is it that when workers aren't militant and the state is weak, industries go all cut-throat and shit, instead of taking up the slack?

I bought something of my mate for £20.00
I sold it for £30.00 on eBay.
No one got hurt.

People do arbitrage trading all the time. It helps stabilise markets.

Profits are important to stay in business, but so is how the profits are made.

I don't understand why you are critisizing capitalism for the need of state regulations. The state is there to do jobs that need to be done, that for the time being can only be done by the state.

What would it be like under socialism or communism? You'd still need a state regulating.

This is because when people build power structures, unwanted, bad effects come in, because people within any system have conflicting interests.

Compitition is an incentive to do the right thing, it helps bring down prices for buyers, but there is a race to the bottom mentantality for the vendors in the market: "If I don't find ways to undercut the competition, we could be out of business" - this is where we have laws to ensure that cost cutting comes from innovation, but not at the expense of workers interests.

You can critisize capitalism all you want and I would agree with you on many of it's shortcomings. But it's the best system we have.

The big difference between us, is that you don't want it fixed or improved.

I would like to see markets decentralised, but you want to protect the banks and the corporates.

That's because you're fake. You're not one of us. You're one of them.

 

[StakerOne]

Who's research would you be looking up, though? That produced by those who are actually qualified, or would you look at some random shit on YouTube and Facebook?

None of which you've produced in support of your claim, by the way. We've only got your word so far. As you say, we'd be absolute idiots to take your word. So yeah, why should anyone listen to you again?

This is where you are fake.

You're authotarian.

I'm an idiot. My relatives are idiots. My friends are idiots. My town is full of idiots. My county is full of idiots.

We are all incapable of deciding for ourselves, how to organise our own lives, based on the information we have disseminated.

We need an internet that is managed and run by Jeremy Corbyn to tell us who is qualified and follows the government narrative.

If only there was some centralised digital ID system that every citizen needed to read and publish information on the internet....

.....but not to vote mind....

 

[danny la rouge]

Wow. This is proper bizarre.

 

[StakerOne]

Who's research would you be looking up, though? That produced by those who are actually qualified, or would you look at some random shit on YouTube and Facebook?

None of which you've produced in support of your claim, by the way. We've only got your word so far. As you say, we'd be absolute idiots to take your word. So yeah, why should anyone listen to you again?

I tell you what. I'll have another go at this one, with an answer that will give you an insight in my thinking.

People don't always trust experts right away, because they believe that society is rife with corruption.

Of course someone being an expert, lends a lot of weight to their credibility.

So it's a mixture.

I'm looking for what various experts are saying, but I don't discount someone because they're not an expert.

There are experts that could be corrupt, with self vested interests, or they might even be following a political or ideological narrative.

There are also experts who might have been stripped of their qualifications, because they didn't follow an ideological or political narritve that suits certain interests.

Some experts or companies could be honest one day but corrupt the next.

I would research multiple sources - but nothing should ever be discounted, ever, for many reasons.

 

[StakerOne]

Wow. This is proper bizarre.

"Your honour, I now start my case to shut this cunt up for not agreeing..."

 

[danny la rouge]

"You're honour

I am. Personified.