Alex Salmond accused (and then cleared) of sexual misconduct.

[redcogs]

So what if it's divisive littlebabyjesus? Economic and social division are the central to capitalist democracies, both sides of the border. That is unlikely to end if Independence for Scotland is achieved.

It's a class issue in the end.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A new country formed on the back of a contested mechanism achieved through consciously gaming the electoral system?

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[geminisnake]

He’s an MP in Westminster.

aye, just realised this this afternoon, I don't really follow his whereabouts but you were correct So they(AP) have an MP and a councillor already from what I gather. Also I think they may get a list seat in the NE.

 

[redcogs]

Anarchy UK

 

[danny la rouge]

A new country formed on the back of a contested mechanism achieved through consciously gaming the electoral system?

What could possibly go wrong?

Elections are won by getting the most seats. The current Tory government has well short of a majority of the popular vote.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Elections are won by getting the most seats. The current Tory government has well short of a majority.

I know. That's fucking crap as well.

 

[geminisnake]

ETA I also heard the name Dross for the first time .

How have you missed this?

 

[danny la rouge]

I know. That's fucking crap as well.

But nobody questions their legitimacy.

 

[redcogs]

But nobody questions their legitimacy.

we do

 

[PR1Berske]

Lib Dem MP Alistair Carmichael added: "Kenny MacAskill wants to go from being the SNP MP for East Lothian, to the Alba party MSP for Lothians. I will be interested to see how he pursues this role from his home in Banffshire."

 

[danny la rouge]

we do

Well, sure. But there’s no international consensus that they’re not the real U.K. government.

 

[redcogs]

Its possible he has an eye on a nice rural Moray seat

 

[danny la rouge]

People outside of Scotland will need to know that Banff isn’t near the Lothians.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well, sure. But there’s no international consensus that they’re not the real U.K. government.

That's not really the question here, though, is it? The basic question here concerns the Scottish parliament unilaterally handing itself new powers, and how that would play out if it tried it.

The absence of an explicit constitution in the UK makes many things theoretically possible (and opens up routes to independence that don't exist in places like Spain), but that absence also leaves a murky area of unknowns, such as how much of a right the Scottish parliament has to hand itself new powers, which is what unilaterally declaring independence amounts to. And how would that play out in the real world? Would unionists accept it? The strength of the referendum route, seems to me, is that it is a route that has clarity and would lead to acceptance by unionists.

As a relatively disinterested observer, this doesn't look like a wise tactic to me.

 

[redcogs]

That's not really the question here, though, is it? The basic question here concerns the Scottish parliament unilaterally handing itself new powers, and how that would play out if it tried it.

The absence of an explicit constitution in the UK makes many things theoretically possible (and opens up routes to independence that don't exist in places like Spain), but that absence also leaves a murky area of unknowns, such as how much of a right the Scottish parliament has to hand itself new powers, which is what unilaterally declaring independence amounts to. And how would that play out in the real world? Would unionists accept it? The strength of the referendum route, seems to me, is that it is a route that has clarity and would lead to acceptance by unionists.

Aye its essential to keep Sas' happy.

 

[killer b]

the idea that the result of a referendum would be accepted by those who lost it is not one borne out by the evidence of recent referendums tbf.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the idea that the result of a referendum would be accepted by those who lost it is not one borne out by the evidence of recent referendums tbf.

There are important differences, tbf. For starters, there was a clear plan by those asking for a 'yes' vote that made explicit what 'yes' meant.

But ultimately, Brexit has happened - a 'superBrexit' at that.

An accurate parallel would be a narrow vote for Scots independence after a campaign promising a continuity of the monarchy and the pound, followed by the formation of a Republic with its own currency.

 

[killer b]

whatever dude.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

whatever dude.

Be a twat if you like, but I do think the clear plan for a route to independence is an important difference. I've said so a few times before.

 

[danny la rouge]

That's not really the question here, though, is it? The basic question here concerns the Scottish parliament unilaterally handing itself new powers, and how that would play out if it tried it.

The absence of an explicit constitution in the UK makes many things theoretically possible (and opens up routes to independence that don't exist in places like Spain), but that absence also leaves a murky area of unknowns, such as how much of a right the Scottish parliament has to hand itself new powers, which is what unilaterally declaring independence amounts to. And how would that play out in the real world? Would unionists accept it? The strength of the referendum route, seems to me, is that it is a route that has clarity and would lead to acceptance by unionists.

As a relatively disinterested observer, this doesn't look like a wise tactic to me.

Unionists are going to be unhappy however it occurs.

What interests me isn’t the mandate. (I think if you go into an election calling for a pro independence mandate and win then you’ve got that mandate). It’s the extent to which (and if) Salmond corals the disgruntled “anti gradualist” vote. Would 3 AP MSPs sway Sturgeon? 10? 15? Will she be swayed at all? She’s clear the referendum is her third priority (after the pandemic and the economic recovery). It’s the AP’s 1st. What’s the dynamics going to be if they win MSPs?

 

[killer b]

Be a twat if you like, but I do think the clear plan for a route to independence is an important difference. I've said so a few times before.

Why are you calling me a twat? I wasn't digging you y'know, or just talking about Brexit - there was a scottish independence referendum in very recent history too, and the losers of that don't seem to have accepted the result.

 

[JimW]

Blimey so now East Lothian is a question too. The whole area between the Tweed and Forth is starting to look dubious.

 

[redcogs]

Unionists are going to be unhappy however it occurs.

What interests me isn’t the mandate. (I think if you go into an election calling for a pro independence mandate and win then you’ve got that mandate). It’s the extent to which (and if) Salmond corals the disgruntled “anti gradualist” vote. Would 3 AP MSPs sway Sturgeon? 10? 15? Will she be swayed at all? She’s clear the referendum is her third priority (after the pandemic and the economic recovery). It’s the AP’s 1st. What’s the dynamics going to be if they win MSPs?

Nicola is content with a status quo in which she keeps her job and status. She has little difficulty swatting the Tory Labour Green Libdem opposition, none of them has a leader that is capable of matching her skillset. A small groupf of critics from the left could be a decisive factor - exposing her endless prevarication on Independence to some real pressure.

 

[danny la rouge]

Blimey so now East Lothian is a question too. The whole area between the Tweed and Forth is starting to look dubious.

Well, east of Whitburn anyway.

 

[danny la rouge]

Nicola is content with a status quo in which she keeps her job and status. She has little difficulty swatting the Tory Labour Green Libdem opposition, none of them has a leader that is capable of matching her skillset. A small groupf of critics from the left could be a decisive factor - exposing her endless prevarication on Independence to some real pressure.

I’m not convinced the AP are “from the left”. They seem so far to be the socially conservative faction.

 

[killer b]

he meant 'from behind', ideally with few witnesses about.

 

[danny la rouge]

I laughed, I’ll admit. But it wasn’t entirely appropriate.

 

[redcogs]

Really

he meant 'from behind', ideally with few witnesses about.

Have you always suffered from RSI? Or is it just this thread?

 

[redcogs]

I’m not convinced the AP are “from the left”. They seem so far to be the socially conservative faction.

Dont forget Salmond and MacAsKill's history - their origins were in the left. Much water has flowed since, and both have acquired baggage. But they know the terrain and how to walk it well enough?

 

[danny la rouge]

Dont forget Salmond and MacAsKill's history - their origins were in the left. Much water has flowed since, and both have acquired baggage. But they know the terrain and how to walk it well enough?

They know how to talk it, for sure.