Alex Salmond accused (and then cleared) of sexual misconduct.
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
OMG - they have just had someone reviewing the papers on Sky News, and he said something along of lines of 'Alba, I have no idea what that means, maybe it means something in Scottish Gaelic.' 
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
OMG - they have just had someone reviewing the papers on Sky News, and he said something along of lines of 'Alba, I have no idea what that means, maybe it means something in Scottish Gaelic.'
It’s almost as if London based journalists don’t know anything outside of London.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
It's ok though danny, because it was a 'joke'.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Twelve hours later...
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Yeah, it is actually possible that one was a poor joke, but the guy on Sky can't excuse his ignorance.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
However, Rentoul does raise the question: can Alba get more than 6% of the list vote. If they can, then they do start getting MSPs. And if the SNP do very well in the constituency votes, then Alba pick up seats the SNP can’t due to the voting system punishing exceptional constituency performance.
I can see two problems with the strategy though. First, the SNP has to maintain its very high constituency performance, and polls show a dip. And secondly, Alba have to do enough more than 6% to take “pro indy” parties over the majority line or all they do is deprive the SNP of list seats.
I haven’t run the figures but someone will soon, so we’ll get an idea of exactly how well each party has to do to maintain a pro indy majority (which there is now with Greens).
It’s a risky strategy because I think Salmond supporters are overestimating his appeal and because the votes they’ll take won’t be Unionist ones.
I can see two problems with the strategy though. First, the SNP has to maintain its very high constituency performance, and polls show a dip. And secondly, Alba have to do enough more than 6% to take “pro indy” parties over the majority line or all they do is deprive the SNP of list seats.
I haven’t run the figures but someone will soon, so we’ll get an idea of exactly how well each party has to do to maintain a pro indy majority (which there is now with Greens).
It’s a risky strategy because I think Salmond supporters are overestimating his appeal and because the votes they’ll take won’t be Unionist ones.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If I understand correctly, the threshold is the key? Get more than 6% with mostly 'split ticket' votes, and they increase Indy reps. Get less than 6% and they reduce them?
Not that this is happening here exactly, but it's a system that can be gamed. Two separate parties acting together could urge split ticket voting and clean up in both sections. That's something of a flaw in the system.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Well the system was designed so that it would work in favour of the unionist parties. It was never anticipated that there’d be enough anti Union votes for two indy parties to exist.
As for a “flaw”, it’s not really a flaw if there is a majority of votes for independence and it returns a pro indy majority. That’s called proportional representation.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In this particular instance that may be so, but more generally the system assumes party 'independence'. Can be gamed/produce unintended biases in either direction.
Eta: looking at the last two election results, the SNP has done well enough out of the system. Absolute majority in 2011 with less than 50% of the vote, just short of one in 2016 but seats still a little higher than vote share.
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danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Sure it can be gamed. But FFTP is gamed as a matter of course, and it’s never even commented on.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Er...
Fptp is probably the worst system of all. I've commented on that for decades.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Yeah, I'm not having a go at you. It's just interesting that the media are all suddenly saying the Holyrood system is flawed this morning. It's been in place since 1999. It was fine before now. I'm assuming everyone thinks Salmond will do considerably better than 6%, which is why it's suddenly agreed it's a flawed system.
Personally, my initial expectation is that he'll struggle to do around 5-6%. But I can never guess these things, and there's no polling yet, so I'm not putting any money anywhere.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I wouldn't say it was a flawed system, but it's certainly a bit counterintuitive, as I mentioned before. I wasn't aware it worked like that until now.
Without wanting to derail the thread, is anyone aware of a list system elsewhere which operates in a similar way?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Tbf all voting systems are flawed. It's a case of choosing your flaws. I wasn't aware that the media was now screaming about flaws in this system. It's a considerable improvement on fptp, which is the most flawed system of all.
Regarding your question, similar systems are common. London Assembly is another example.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
This is as good a summary as any:
What does Salmond want and what will he achieve? – politicalbetting.com
www2.politicalbetting.com
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm not saying anything about whether it's flawed, I'm simply surprised that it works this way.
I also wasn't aware that the London Assembly system is the same, but having looked it up, it appears it is
I find it even more surprising that I wasn't aware of this, given that I live in London. I wonder if the journos who are apparently saying the Scottish system is flawed are aware the London Assembly one is the same...
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
After than one opinion poll showing a lead for the Yes vote, every lever, pulley and button of the British state was put in action to keep Scotland in the UK. You bet your bottom dollar that Alba and the inherent knowledge about how to use the voting system to the Independence movement's advantage will get the machinery cranking again.
This does speak to the London-centric view of the UK. As said above, the voting system has been in place since 1999. For all this time, you could have researched how it works. If you're a political journalist of any value, you'd know how in Italy and Israel, the "constituency plus list" system can be played if you know how. That a lot of London-based journalists are only waking up now says a lot about them than it does about the system.
This does speak to the London-centric view of the UK. As said above, the voting system has been in place since 1999. For all this time, you could have researched how it works. If you're a political journalist of any value, you'd know how in Italy and Israel, the "constituency plus list" system can be played if you know how. That a lot of London-based journalists are only waking up now says a lot about them than it does about the system.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The journos concerned probably aren't interested in a grown-up debate about election systems. This one is a compromise that sacrifices pure pr in order to maintain constituency links. Its flaws mainly come from the fact that the fptp bit maintains at least a nod towards the largely theoretical idea that the vote is for an individual rather than a party. That's one of the problems with a pure pr system. It leaves no room outside parties. (There is also an argument that this shouldn't necessarily be considered a bad thing - if you want to participate in democracy maybe you should be required to do so as part of a group rather than as an individual.)
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I see Kenny MacAskill has joined Alba. So they now have one MP in Westminster.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No mention of him standing down in Westminster so far.It will be an interesting by-election if/when he resigns to spend more time in Holyrood
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I’m still struggling with the idea that it’s credible to imagine a Salmond vehicle getting more than 6% of the vote. I suppose we just have to wait for polling.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
An obvious point, but the 'Alex Salmond's Alba Party' bit is telling. No attempt to present it as a party that includes Alex Salmond or any attempt to distance them from his behaviour. In a way that's more honest, it is a Salmond vehicle, but it's also even more depressing. No need to apologise for joining a sex pest revenge mission, no need to apologise for wanting to get into Holyrood using Salmond's 'name'. Grim.
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