Alex Salmond accused (and then cleared) of sexual misconduct.

[redcogs]

It only exists because of his activities. That’s it. It’s not incidental. It’s the Sleepy Cuddles Party.

Time will tell. i'm just interested in delivering a blow to Johnsons westminster cabal.

 

[danny la rouge]

Time will tell. i'm just interested in delivering a blow to Johnsons westminster cabal.

I know, you keep saying so. I’m just at a loss to understand why you think this party is the way.

 

[andysays]

You seem to be saying this is an issue of timing then? So in a years time it might be ok to offer electoral support? Or never? This election is 6 weeks away. Alba are standing whether anyone likes it or not, and every Scottish voter is forced to assume an attitude towards it. That is what i have done. Am i therefore a misogynist groper? The idea is ridiculous.

The timing of origin is a poor argument on which to oppose a Party.

It's not just an issue of timing of origin, is it?

As far as I can see, this new Alba party has literally only come into existence because of the fallout from the Alex Salmond sex offences case and his apparent paranoia that it was all a conspiracy to do him down.

No one is actually accusing you of being a misogynist groper, but you're apparently willing to lend your support to a party set up simply as a vehicle for a paranoid misogynist groper has-been, and it's hardly surprising you're being challenged.

 

[redsquirrel]

Its a question of potential vote size, not ideology. Whether people like it or not, Salmond still has considerable sway in Scotland, way more than the Greens, who have tempte me in the past. Many Salmond supporters, some of whom will be decent human beings, accept the verdicts offered by the courts, and are prepared to ignore the stench. These are simple truths which are not going to be influenced much in the next 6 weeks.

Hmm, I'll admit live south of the border but I think you are very much overestimating the support Salmond has. Look at the poll weepiper posted. Regardless of the ethical questions I suspect that the Greens will end up with more votes/seats than the AP.

 

[andysays]

This argument is persuasive

TNS poll shows SNP 2nd votes wasted: Alan Bisset backs RISE for a Yes parliament

In response to today’s TNS poll, RISE is highlighting the fact that, for supporters of Scottish independence, their second ‘list’ vote will be wasted on the SNP due to the nature of Scotland’s elec…

bellacaledonia.org.uk

I've read that article, but I don't understand how this 'list' part of the voting works. For example

Despite the SNP getting over half of the list vote, the party is set to win only 6 MSPs on the list, with the vast majority of list vote MSPs going to Labour and the Tories.

Can anyone explain it?

 

[danny la rouge]

I've read that article, but I don't understand how this 'list' part of the voting works. For example


Can anyone explain it?

The Scottish Parliament electoral system explained

With just days to go until the Scottish Parliament election on Thursday 5 May, we look at what you need to know about the electoral system used to elect Members of the Scottish Parliament.

www.scotsman.com

 

[JimW]

Salmond just wants to show he hasn't lost his touch, or I think that's what they said.

 

[weepiper]

I've read that article, but I don't understand how this 'list' part of the voting works. For example


Can anyone explain it?

Ignore me, bollocks.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've read that article, but I don't understand how this 'list' part of the voting works. For example


Can anyone explain it?

The number of constituency seats you get affects how many list ones you get. You get a mathematical handicap in the list seats if you're successful in the constituency seats.

 

[danny la rouge]

There's two ballot papers in a Scottish Parliament Election. Constituency (fptp, like General Elections) and List (stv)

How are constituency MSPs elected to the Scottish Parliament? - Voting systems in Scotland - National 5 Modern Studies Revision - BBC Bitesize

National 5 Voting systems in Scotland - the Additional Member System (AMS) and the Single Transferable Vote (STV) from BBC Bitesize Scotland

www.bbc.co.uk

The list is actually AMS, but it is the “proportional” element.

This strange hybrid was actually explicitly designed to stop the SNP ever getting a majority. That they did is what’s remarkable.

 

[redcogs]

I have no doubt that a proportion of activists will give off to this party. But I’ll be extremely surprised if it gets anyone elected. Including Sleepy Cuddles.
[/QUOTE

It's not just an issue of timing of origin, is it?

As far as I can see, this new Alba party has literally only come into existence because of the fallout from the Alex Salmond sex offences case and his apparent paranoia that it was all a conspiracy to do him down.

No one is actually accusing you of being a misogynist groper, but you're apparently willing to lend your support to a party set up simply as a vehicle for a paranoid misogynist groper has-been, and it's hardly surprising you're being challenged.

i've no objection to being challenged. What irritates is the knowledge that loads of people here have been quite prepared to vote for all manner of political organisations which have contained within them a minority of absolutely criminal scumbags. I hope you might recognise this inconsistency and realise that a vote for an organisational banner is not a vote of full confidence in every member of that organisation? The tactic of placing more supporters of an Independent Scotland in hollyrood is what is important. Electoral purity does not exist.

 

[Wilf]

incredible that you'd bring this up in support of your stance that supporting parties led by handsy creeps is actually fine.

Very much this.

 

[danny la rouge]

The tactic of placing more supporters of an Independent Scotland in hollyrood is what is important.

How do you think voting AP does this, is my question. For example the Greens are pro independence and already have more MSPs than AP are likely to get.

 

[weepiper]

The list is actually AMS, but it is the “proportional” element.

This strange hybrid was actually explicitly designed to stop the SNP ever getting a majority. That they did is what’s remarkable.

Fuck's sake, so it is. Thanks for the correction.

 

[danny la rouge]

Fuck's sake, so it is. Thanks for the correction.

No problem. I got to be pointlessly pedantic again, so it’s all good.

 

[Sue]

But it is a party built around a 'sex pest and objectionable bully', to quote his legal defence.

Tommy just called from 2006....

 

[ska invita]

 

[redcogs]

Very much this.

i am misunderstood. But i doubt that using an example of a different political party (non swp) will change anyone's view. It seems chrystal clear to me. ANY political party contains scumbags. Some are never found out. Others are, but their party's survive despite the individual failings of some.

The notion that Alba is a lepper organisation because its figurehead has been rumbled does not discredit the tens of thousands of Scotts who will likely vote for it in 6 weeks. And nor should it.

 

[redcogs]

For example the Greens are pro independence and already have more MSPs than AP are likely to get.

This is only a judgement danny. No more valid than my own. i judge that Salmond and Alba despite Salmond's history, will still pull numbers of votes that the Greens cannot. We will know in six weeks (probably more than that due to covid and counting votes issues).

 

[elbows]

i am misunderstood. But i doubt that using an example of a different political party (non swp) will change anyone's view. It seems chrystal clear to me. ANY political party contains scumbags. Some are never found out. Others are, but their party's survive despite the individual failings of some.

The sequence of events here is hardly typical. Jeremy Thorpe didnt set up a new political vehicle for his court-cleared self.

 

[andysays]

The number of constituency seats you get affects how many list ones you get. You get a mathematical handicap in the list seats if you're successful in the constituency seats.

OK, that sounds counter-intuitive because I thought the general idea of a list system was to accurately reflect the proportional support for each party.

The list is actually AMS, but it is the “proportional” element.

This strange hybrid was actually explicitly designed to stop the SNP ever getting a majority. That they did is what’s remarkable.

And this kind of makes sense, but isn't what I thought a list system was supposed to be about.

 

[mojo pixy]

So how should we pronounce it?

Is it Al as in 'you can call me Alec' or as in 'All this focus on personalities doesn't really advance the cause of independence'?

I think in this particular case it's prounounced Awba, as in bawbag.

 

[andysays]

i am misunderstood. But i doubt that using an example of a different political party (non swp) will change anyone's view. It seems chrystal clear to me. ANY political party contains scumbags. Some are never found out. Others are, but their party's survive despite the individual failings of some.

The notion that Alba is a lepper organisation because its figurehead has been rumbled does not discredit the tens of thousands of Scotts who will likely vote for it in 6 weeks. And nor should it.

Again, you're inventing criticisms which no one has actually made.

You're starting to sound almost as paranoid as Salmond himself...

 

[killer b]

The sequence of events here is hardly typical. Jeremy Thorpe didnt set up a new political vehicle for his court-cleared self.

Tbf I do generally assume all lib dems are nonces.

 

[8ball]

Sounds like a Chinese website that sells crap that never turns up.

 

[redcogs]

The sequence of events here is hardly typical. Jeremy Thorpe didnt set up a new political vehicle for his court-cleared self.

No, this assumes that there is not a bedrock of support for Salmond. my experience tells me there is, and that, allied to the tactical astuteness of packing Holyrood with even more Independence supporters will be recognised on polling day. my feelings, or anyone elses on this forum, about Salmonds behaviour, will not influence that voting potential one iota. Believing it will is purist head in the sand nonsense.

 

[danny la rouge]

This is only a judgement danny. No more valid than my own. i judge that Salmond and Alba despite Salmond's history, will still pull numbers of votes that the Greens cannot. We will know in six weeks (probably more than that due to covid and counting votes issues).

Well, I do judge they won’t do well. I’d be amazed. Salmond is deeply divisive. Friends of mine who voted No last time have changed, in no small part because they like Sturgeon whereas they hated Salmond.

Joanna Cherry, the highest profile and most likely defection, has put her head up from her sick leave to deny the rumours. Who will he get? Iain Lawson? Ask anyone who isn’t a nerd who that is.

 

[elbows]

Time will tell the extent to which the court of public opinion sentenced him to have his bed rocks castrated.

 

[danny la rouge]

Went for a look at Kenny MacAskill’s twitter. He has no SNP logo or mention of the SNP in his bio. I don’t know if he usually does but he’s a possible defection. Tomorrow perhaps.

 

[redcogs]

Salmond standing in the North East danny. Apparently he has stood ten times previously in the same area, and won nine. The coming vote will certainly be fascinating. He is certain to make much of those jury acquittals on the stump.