Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

[bimble]

check them out.

Taliban fighters in makeup: Barbican to show rare pictures

Photographs, found in Kandahar, Afghanistan, taken despite ban on photography

www.theguardian.com

Thomas Dworzak - "Taliban"

"Taliban " Magnum photos Dworzak is a world recognised photojournalist, born in 1972. Awarded World Best Press Awards in 2001 and 2018. President of Magnum Photography 2017; Having covered conflicts in Northern Ireland, Israel, Palestine and the Balkan wars in the former state of Yugoslavia...

www.bobs-portfolio.photography

 

[campanula]

Apols for vacuous wittering but absolutely everyone (dahling) wore Afghani kuchis back in the heyday of Magic bus, overland hash trails. A gorgeous aesthetic of breathtaking skill and beauty.

 

[bimble]

Its not just the colour choices & coordination, their outfits are all perfectly ironed as well, i find that intriguing.

 

[brogdale]

View attachment 284477

Its not just the colour choices & coordination, their outfits are all perfectly ironed as well, i find that intriguing.

"How can you live the high life if you do not wear the high heels?" —Sonia Rykiel

 

[2hats]

Looking forward to seeing him drop in and personally take control of matters on the ground.

 

[Elpenor]

View attachment 284477

Its not just the colour choices & coordination, their outfits are all perfectly ironed as well, i find that intriguing.

Behind every Taliban fighter is several wives sorting out their wardrobe and doing their laundry.

 

[bimble]

And packed lunches

 

[Spymaster]

In terms of basic threat to life who killed more the Taliban or the yanks? Yanks/British killed 300,000 plus. Also easier, if unpleasant, to avoid being killed by Taliban. They don't just randomly bomb weddings or wipe out your village because the next village along told them you were insurgents.

A bit loathe to get into this because any civilian deaths are too many, but where are you getting the 300,000 from and have you evidence of random wedding bombings or villages being wiped out in the basis that you suggest?

 

[Spymaster]

Gosh, I think you’re dreadfully naïve on this one

About which bit?

 

[Spymaster]

Does that explain the young men who joined up as taliban soldiers or do you need a different slightly more complex story for that? And all their mums & uncles and the people who were sick of the extreme corruption of the recently overthrown regime , were they all just scared of the nasty talibans as well?

Well yes, of course there'd be more complex issues at play in many cases. Are you suggesting that because some youngsters joined up for ideological reasons, that the majority of Afghans welcome them back?

 

[bimble]

Well yes, of course there'd be more complex issues at play in many cases. Are you suggesting that because some youngsters joined up for ideological reasons, that the majority of Afghans welcome them back?

Ok yes there was more at play than fear is all you needed to say.

Your idea that the whole country fell within weeks ,with barely a fight, because everyone including the army was just so terrified of the scary Taliban (who were not invaders but their brothers and sons and next door neighbours etc) it just makes no sense.

 

[maomao]

A bit loathe to get into this because any civilian deaths are too many, but where are you getting the 300,000 from and have you evidence of random wedding bombings or villages being wiped out in the basis that you suggest?

This says 240,000 (of which 71,000 were civilians) but these are US army figures and only count confirmed and recorded deaths and are likely to be massive underestimates.

The Afghan War, By The Numbers

What 20 years of fighting in Afghanistan cost — in dollars and in lives.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Wikipedia has 212,000 but again large numbers of deaths just aren't recorded.

The Russians killed over a million of course but you can see how the Afghans would just want an end to violence.

The wedding that was bombed was widely reported at the time:

Wech Baghtu wedding party airstrike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The stuff about Afghan tribes reporting the next rival tribe along as 'Taliban' to get them bombed by the Americans is from TV interviews with British army who reckoned they didn't get taken in so easily.


The lowest estimate (Wikipedia) is of 51,000 civilians dead. That's a fuck of a lot of dead people so I simply wanted an estimate of civilian deaths by Taliban for comparison.

 

[weltweit]

I heard on the radio earlier that the UK Is considering lengthening the deadline for people to reach the airport so that more people can escape.

But it isn't getting to the airport that is the issue, the issue is that they can't get past the Taliban check points on the way to the airport.

 

[bimble]

I heard on the radio earlier that the UK Is considering lengthening the deadline for people to reach the airport so that more people can escape.

But it isn't getting to the airport that is the issue, the issue is that they can't get past the Taliban check points on the way to the airport.

These are the same thing, its taking 2 days to cross the city if you're brave / desperate enough to try to do it, by passing all the Taliban checkpoints. Gauntlet to reach Kabul airport taking evacuees 24 to 48 hours

 

[weltweit]

That is what I thought the hundreds of UK soldiers were for, to go get and bring back the evacuees to the airfield.

 

[bimble]

i don't know what the soldiers are doing, maybe just stationed at the airport & checking paperwork of those who do make it there?

 

[Pickman's model]

That is what I thought the hundreds of UK soldiers were for, to go get and bring back the evacuees to the airfield.

What, to go into a city with loads of Taliban in, wander about, find the people they sought, and maybe cadge a cheeky lift off the Taliban back to the airport?

 

[Spymaster]

This says 240,000 (of which 71,000 were civilians) but these are US army figures and only count confirmed and recorded deaths and are likely to be massive underestimates.

The Afghan War, By The Numbers

What 20 years of fighting in Afghanistan cost — in dollars and in lives.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Wikipedia has 212,000 but again large numbers of deaths just aren't recorded.

The Russians killed over a million of course but you can see how the Afghans would just want an end to violence.

The wedding that was bombed was widely reported at the time:

Wech Baghtu wedding party airstrike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The stuff about Afghan tribes reporting the next rival tribe along as 'Taliban' to get them bombed by the Americans is from TV interviews with British army who reckoned they didn't get taken in so easily.


The lowest estimate (Wikipedia) is of 51,000 civilians dead. That's a fuck of a lot of dead people so I simply wanted an estimate of civilian deaths by Taliban for comparison.

Well we know a wedding was bombed but it was more your characterization of "random" that I was questioning, as if it were a regular occurence or indeed, random. But yes, 71,000 is appalling. I'm interested in why you think that the Taliban are generally supported by the people though. They killed thousands too, right? Then add to that the regime that people are forced to live under. I'm taking issue with your assertion that they're generally supported by the population, but agreeing that the invasion was disastrous.

 

[gosub]

Sandals are never cool. AK47s pair with boots. Loving the range of colours though, as the late, great Robin Williams said,
"You know, this whole camouflage thing, for me, doesn't work very well. I can't see you. You know, it's like wearing stripes and plaid. For me, I want to do something different. You know, you go in the jungle, make a statement. If you're going to fight, clash. You know what I mean?

I felt shit about this before youi gave me the notion that the West has just been humiliated by a load of lib dem hipsters

 

[two sheds]

All that eyeliner I think they're Hollywood crisis actors whole thing's a setup

 

[kabbes]

About which bit?

It’s been a bit superseded now by what you have subsequently said to modify yourself, but about the idea that the Taliban just scared a hostile population into acquiescence whilst barely firing a shot.

 

[Spymaster]

It’s been a bit superseded now by what you have subsequently said to modify yourself, but about the idea that the Taliban just scared a hostile population into acquiescence whilst barely firing a shot.

Clarify rather than modify but you're worth talking to, so what bit of my position was naive (despite the clarification/modification)?

 

[kabbes]

Clarify rather than modify but you're worth talking to, so what bit of my position was naive (despite the clarification/modification)?

Well, history is full of scary invaders. Incumbent populations, however, don’t tend to just stand to one side for them and just let them get on with it. Particularly when the invading outsiders also say they intend to change the social order in radical, undesired ways. And double particularly when the invaders also threaten half the existing population (metaphorically half, at least) with subjugation, torture, rape and death. Incumbent populations actually have a history of desperate resistance against that sort of thing. On the other hand, if the incumbent population includes a high proportion of sympathisers and collaborators with the invaders and if the invaders are actually quite culturally attuned to the incumbents then, well, that might be a different story.

 

[kebabking]

That is what I thought the hundreds of UK soldiers were for, to go get and bring back the evacuees to the airfield.

i don't know what the soldiers are doing, maybe just stationed at the airport & checking paperwork of those who do make it there?

Four functions:

physically run the airport - ATC, crash response, marshalling aircraft, keeping the infrastructure going.

running the NEO - administering who can go, who gets on what flight, medical support etc...

Security for the airport - it's an airport, it has a huge perimeter, and as you've seen, people running onto the runway tends to end badly.

There is a limited operation of driving down into Kabul and meeting up with, and retrieving, people who need to get out. This, as you can imagine, is a bit tenuous, and requires some inventiveness and buttering up the Talibs.

There's no fuel at Kabul airport, you either arrive with enough fuel to get to somewhere safe, or you rely on tanking.

Each aircraft can spend no more that 30 minutes on the ground - they land, go to the pan and load up with whoever is there (broadly each nation is bringing its own people home - there's a US line, a UK line, a French line etc... but if a nation runs out of people who can go right now, and the next has people, they'll lob them on).

The 30 minutes includes unloading whatever you arrived with - which is fuel for generators, food, water, and reinforcements.

 

[bimble]

if a nation runs out of people who can go right now, and the next has people, they'll lob them on).

no nation is taking any other nation's people?
eta oh sorry misread.
good.

 

[A380]

Though maybe the white pashtuns with ginger hair confused them. Though maybe not if they had a big fuck off machine gun on the back of a truck.

View attachment 284464

Prince Harry?

 

[Pickman's model]

Prince Harry?

Looks more like Harry Kane

 

[pogofish]

There is something about their aesthetic that is uncomfortably fecking cool tbh.
Have you noticed there's a fair few talibs who wear kohl eye make-up?

The time was, not actually that long ago that Afghanistan was considered as amongst the world's top producers of luxury/high-end hand-made textiles/carpets etc.

And when it comes to making deals, I'm reminded of a story I once heard - One of my mother's oldest friends was the daughter of a successful Turkish-English business family. Whom she first met when she went to work abroad in the 1950s - a more mismatched pair you couldn't imagine but they remained firm friends for the rest of their lives.

Anyway, when it came time for her brother to join the family business in the 1960s, despite the best English education that money could buy, their father's plan for his training/apprenticeship didn't involve Business School/University/placements with the big names etc - no, he sent him off to Afghanistan with a few introductions/contacts and the strict instruction to not come back until he had learned from the ground-up how to do good business there. That way, as they were the toughest people he had ever done business with, his son would be more than ready to deal with anything the US or Europe could throw at him - and it worked. His son eventually took-over and their firm remains very successful today.

Trump/Biden/the US/UK or anyone else dealing with them today probably underestimated the Afghanis to the degree where they just didn't stand a chance!

 

[MickiQ]

Four functions:

physically run the airport - ATC, crash response, marshalling aircraft, keeping the infrastructure going.

running the NEO - administering who can go, who gets on what flight, medical support etc...

Security for the airport - it's an airport, it has a huge perimeter, and as you've seen, people running onto the runway tends to end badly.

There is a limited operation of driving down into Kabul and meeting up with, and retrieving, people who need to get out. This, as you can imagine, is a bit tenuous, and requires some inventiveness and buttering up the Talibs.

There's no fuel at Kabul airport, you either arrive with enough fuel to get to somewhere safe, or you rely on tanking.

Each aircraft can spend no more that 30 minutes on the ground - they land, go to the pan and load up with whoever is there (broadly each nation is bringing its own people home - there's a US line, a UK line, a French line etc... but if a nation runs out of people who can go right now, and the next has people, they'll lob them on).

The 30 minutes includes unloading whatever you arrived with - which is fuel for generators, food, water, and reinforcements.

It did say on the news that the first RAF flight had something like three dozen Aussies onboard, It will ironic if they are now trapped in the UK due to Australia restricting arrivals due to CoVID restrictions.

There's supposedly something like 5,000-6,000 troops there who I assume will take up the last few flights, I imagine the crew and passengers on the very last one are going to be a tad nervous

 

[Sue]

It did say on the news that the first RAF flight had something like three dozen Aussies onboard, It will ironic if they are now trapped in the UK due to Australia restricting arrivals due to CoVID restrictions

Well I'm pretty sure they'd rather end up here than be stuck in Afghanistan.