Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished
- Thread starter toblerone3
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planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Google says German Embassy in Russia
bimble
floofy
Russia is saying stuff like this.
"Russia's embassy in Kabul said on Monday that Afghan President Ashraf Ghani had fled the country with four cars and a helicopter full of cash and had to leave some money behind as it would not all fit in, the RIA news agency reported.'
leave behind as in leave on the tarmac, is what they are suggesting.
"Russia's embassy in Kabul said on Monday that Afghan President Ashraf Ghani had fled the country with four cars and a helicopter full of cash and had to leave some money behind as it would not all fit in, the RIA news agency reported.'
leave behind as in leave on the tarmac, is what they are suggesting.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Ministry of foreign affairs, Moscow.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
A cool five million was abandoned on the tarmac, if reports I've read are correct.
Maybe some civilians were able to collar some of the cash after that, I don't know. It would be nice to think so, anyway.
I”d be interested in this please. I won’t be able to read it until I’m home on a laptop though ( am on holiday)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Whereas the UK and us flee like thieves in the night
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
As the United States found on sept 11 now and again non-homegrown terrorists turn up
bimble
floofy
Biden, early last month :
I'm curious, do people who know about this stuff reckon he was lying when he said (that he thought it not inevitable) or just mistaken?
I'm curious, do people who know about this stuff reckon he was lying when he said (that he thought it not inevitable) or just mistaken?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
The charitable version is that one of the truths that will come out of this debacle - eventually - is that politicians (and others) believe the illusion of reality that most conforms to their desires.
The less charitable, and more likely, version is that he knew that the ANA would collapse, but saying so would get in the way of achieving his desires policy, so he told a great, big, fat lie instead.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
No. I disagree with the first part demanding Biden is let off the hook
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Nobody I’ve seen disagrees with that. It’s the very least that needs to be done. It’s the ‘instead of criticising Biden’ but that rankles
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
It looks like Kabul airport is closed. It's now 22.20 in Kabul, it got dark 4 hours ago, and its reported that the Taliban have taken control of the civilian side of the airport while the US attempt to control the military side.
A German plane has had to divert to Uzbekistan because it couldn't land, and a Turkish plane has gone to Pakistan for the same reason.
I think tomorrow is going to be a shit-show. Burnt out aircraft, hostages, fighting, and everything that can go wrong, will.
I'm in utter dispair.
A German plane has had to divert to Uzbekistan because it couldn't land, and a Turkish plane has gone to Pakistan for the same reason.
I think tomorrow is going to be a shit-show. Burnt out aircraft, hostages, fighting, and everything that can go wrong, will.
I'm in utter dispair.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
What should he have done instead?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Wholly non-judgmental question if I may? It seems that however the coalition pulled out the result would be the same; how does it feel if you have lost a loved one or some limbs there seeing how it has inevitably returned to Taliban rule?
JimW
支那暗杀团
On the China-Pakistan relationship, the common term on the Chinese web is 巴铁 "Iron Pakistan" as in a cast-iron ally and the most recent thing has been a tonne of money chucked at the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, so the interests of the elites coincide (India as well as money of course) but of course it's not really so straightforward. There was an attack on a bus carrying Chinese citizens in Pakistan a month or so ago that killed about a dozen and that illustrates that it's not really a warm friendship on the ground.
I'd noticed the talks with the Taliban before this all blew up but didn't really follow up. Will have a poke around and see if ay of the better commentators have any insight.
I'd noticed the talks with the Taliban before this all blew up but didn't really follow up. Will have a poke around and see if ay of the better commentators have any insight.
bimble
floofy
That isn't true though is it. This bit of the result, that is happening right now, at the airport, and with all the people who had already been promised they would be able to leave and won't now be able to, and who will quite likely die as a result, this botched departure was not inevitable just a massive fuckup.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Pakistan has been firm friends with China as Pakistan is not India. PIA flew to Beijing years ago, Air India did not.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Yeah, that's what I meant with their interests coinciding over India - both agin it.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
How come? Could the US advertise that it will pull out on such and such a date and anyone who wants to flee now will be protected? That perhaps may have been better but the Taliban were always going to take control again once the US fucked off. They are not some alien force that appeared there, they are Afghans.
bimble
floofy
Yes, they just got the timing catastrophically wrong. Thought they had time for an orderly withdrawal and they totally fucked it. Look at Biden's speech 5 weeks ago for instance, saying how they are calmly going about stamping the visas of their allies and interpreters and shall be ferrying them all to safety if they so choose by the 31st of August.
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David Clapson
Well-Known Member
James Heappey, a junior defence minister and ex-serviceman, is on C4 news. He's retelling the lie that he helped prevent Al-Q from using Afghanistan as a base for international terror. This is such horseshit and it's the official justification for the deaths of his colleagues. We invade, so we get to the top of the target list for the terrorist imams, who can live in dozens of countries. Then the imams use the internet to recruit and radicalise British people and give them bomb-making tuition. The invasion causes the attacks here, it doesn't prevent them. We'd be safer if our forces bombed the fucking internet.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
It's not a 'gotcha' because politically he can always argue it wasn't inevitable, just the way things panned out. There's a reason he's put it with the numbers like that. "As any fule can see...(300,000 is bigger than 75000)"
Oh, but about that airforce. 22 Afghan airforce planes have landed in Uzbekistan seeking refuge in the last week. Another got shot down (by the Uzbeks) and another crashed into its Uzbek escort jet, bringing down both.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Anyway, I had a weird one following BBC online earlier at about 5pmish. They were blandly quoting US Defence Sec (Kirby?). Then, in the middle, up popped this line, quoting someone (though I'm not sure if him).
"The Afghan National Army has significant material advantages over the militia and it is now they should be using them."
I immediately had a WTF? moment. I mean, denial of reality or what. And then the line disappeared as the page seemed to refresh.
Wtf was that about? Who did say that line? And why was it reported, in the middle of reporting Kirby, and then removed?
It definitely happened.
"The Afghan National Army has significant material advantages over the militia and it is now they should be using them."
I immediately had a WTF? moment. I mean, denial of reality or what. And then the line disappeared as the page seemed to refresh.
Wtf was that about? Who did say that line? And why was it reported, in the middle of reporting Kirby, and then removed?
It definitely happened.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
On a personal level there are many different feelings and views, most of them mutually exclusive.
On a philosophical/intellectual level I fully understand that you don't 'buy' military/political victories with a one-off cost in blood and treasure, you just rent them, and you can keep them as long as you keep paying whatever cost in blood and treasure your enemy charges.
we have an interesting parallel that no one really questions - the Falklands. The war was fought and won 40 years ago, but we still keep a garrison there in order to maintain that outcome. It has a cost, both financial and human, and we accept that.
I'd say there's little real surprise at the end result, but the speed of it is stunning, and the 'what was it for?' stuff has filled my WhatsApp all weekend. its emotionally devastating, and its wrapped up in absolute horror at what's happening to our interpreters and Locally Employed Contractors, many of whom we had really close relationships with, and who we see being left to horrific deaths - at least in part by government indifference and incompetence.
There's some real soul searching going on, and lots of utter fury, including at a senior level, and lots of it is in public.
Existential crisis is perhaps taking it a bit far, but not by much.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You never heard of the covenant of security successive British governments entered into with jihadis then
And isn't it * really strange * that there's no bomb attacks in 2002. Or 2003. Or 2004. So where is this actual link between the invasion and bomb attacks that you're trying to make?
YouSir
Retired from Urban
No, there's a camp holding British citizens too - not just ones who worked for the gov either.
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