Advice re landlord/[property manager and heating.

[kittyP]

The property manager keeps changing the thermostat so that the heating in the house is on 19 - 21 degrees 24/7
He is insisting that this is for the tenants comfort and to stop mould and damp.

This is an old draughty damp Victorian house with a long history of leaks, damp and things like guttering not being sorted properly so the outside walls in weather like this are damp/wet all the time.

Now, I don't think for one moment that keeping the heating on would actually dry out the damp in the structure of the house as it is persistent in the summer too. but, seeing as the bills are the tenants responsibility and are in my bloody name, in the middle of an energy and cost of living crisis it is not feasible to have it on all the time.

Does any one have any idea of where I stand and my/our rights regarding something like this?

He is insisting that this is more economical and that just isn't true. The more it is on the more we will have to pay.

It is 4 stories, mostly single glazed windows, the roof is in bad need of repair and it badly needs reinsulating.

I am in a little flat in the attic and have my own boiler so I didn't realise the heating had been on 24/7 downstairs.
All the bills are paid as one house though.

Arg I could punch him in the face, he makes me so angry

 

[cesare]

kittyP It must be a terrible worry

I wish I knew more about this sort of thing. My immediate thoughts are that you should contact Shelter for advice. Even if they can't help they should be able to signpost you to the right place.

How come the bills are in your name?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

That sounds shit kittyP - I've no experience of dealing with this sort of thing, but as cesare says, Shelter might be able to provide advice on next steps. It seems iffy for the property manager to do this given the underlying problems that should be sorted.

 

[danski]

If you have your own boiler for your own needs, I would be inclined to ask that you no longer are named on the whole house bill and only pay a tiny contribution toward that bill (as you’d still be using the lights and benefitting from the heat as you went to your own flat).
Is it that there is only one gas and electric meter for the whole building? They would make it more tricky.

 

[muscovyduck]

The property manager keeps changing the thermostat so that the heating in the house is on 19 - 21 degrees 24/7
He is insisting that this is for the tenants comfort and to stop mould and damp.

This is an old draughty damp Victorian house with a long history of leaks, damp and things like guttering not being sorted properly so the outside walls in weather like this are damp/wet all the time.

Now, I don't think for one moment that keeping the heating on would actually dry out the damp in the structure of the house as it is persistent in the summer too. but, seeing as the bills are the tenants responsibility and are in my bloody name, in the middle of an energy and cost of living crisis it is not feasible to have it on all the time.

Does any one have any idea of where I stand and my/our rights regarding something like this?

He is insisting that this is more economical and that just isn't true. The more it is on the more we will have to pay.

It is 4 stories, mostly single glazed windows, the roof is in bad need of repair and it badly needs reinsulating.

I am in a little flat in the attic and have my own boiler so I didn't realise the heating had been on 24/7 downstairs.
All the bills are paid as one house though.

Arg I could punch him in the face, he makes me so angry

What does your tenancy agreement say? I suspect nothing, else they would have brought it up by now. But double check

I think you'll have to go the route of treating this like harassment. Make sure you keep notes of dates, times, etc

 

[kittyP]

kittyP It must be a terrible worry

I wish I knew more about this sort of thing. My immediate thoughts are that you should contact Shelter for advice. Even if they can't help they should be able to signpost you to the right place.

How come the bills are in your name?

Years ago the bills were in the landlords name but he didn't actually deal with any of it, we were expected to open the paper bills addressed to him (which I think is possibly not quite legal) and the call the energy companies and pay over the phone, the bill in full.
An ex tenant was in charge of this and collected monies each month, he then left and basically ran off with our money. Bills appeared on the mat the day after he left and we didn't have the means to pay them. The energy companies wouldn't deal with us as we were not the account holders.
The only way to work it in the end was basically treat it like the landlord had moved out (I suppose he was chased for the money * shrug *) and we had moved in and start new energy accounts in (then) Badgers and my names and when we split up he came off the account.

I have looked at the Shelter website and the section of Lambeth Council for private renters but it is all about what to do if your LL or agent us not making the living environment safe.
He would, I am sure, argue that that is what he is doing but keeping the heating on.

 

[kittyP]

If you have your own boiler for your own needs, I would be inclined to ask that you no longer are named on the whole house bill and only pay a tiny contribution toward that bill (as you’d still be using the lights and benefitting from the heat as you went to your own flat).
Is it that there is only one gas and electric meter for the whole building? They would make it more tricky.

There is only one gas meter and one electricity meter in the basement,

 

[kittyP]

What does your tenancy agreement say? I suspect nothing, else they would have brought it up by now. But double check

I think you'll have to go the route of treating this like harassment. Make sure you keep notes of dates, times, etc

What does it say in terms of what?
It just says on mine that tenants are responsible for the bills.
All our agreements are different though as we all moved in at different times over the last 10 years.

 

[muscovyduck]

What does it say in terms of what?
It just says on mine that tenants are responsible for the bills.
All our agreements are different though as we all moved in at different times over the last 10 years.

Does it say you have an obligation to keep the heating on or anything like that? It probably doesn't but you'll need to double check because it will trip you up further down the line when you're sorting this out

 

[kittyP]

Does it say you have an obligation to keep the heating on or anything like that? It probably doesn't but you'll need to double check because it will trip you up further down the line when you're sorting this out

No it doesn't say anything like that.
It is a really basic tenancy agreement printed off the internet that I had to amend (amendments were witnessed and signed and included in the landlords copy) as stuff that didn't apply to me was on there.

 

[A380]

Does the landlord live in the house too? If so then he probably can do this but if not why is he even coming into the property let alone fucking with the heating?

 

[Riklet]

I know this is maybe unhelpful but it is in fact true (against what common sense says) that the heating on constantly uses less energy than having it on twice a day and heating it up in a big rush. Especially if its a lower temperature. Maybe it would be possible to request...

a) A lower set temperature for the heating e.g. 18-19 degrees.
b) Bills to be shared in a fairer way, ie you paying a smaller proportion.
c) proper insulating and draftstripping of the house to reduce the bills. Its unacceptable theyre not doing anything...
d) damp and mould getting sorted as this is bad for your health and also makes it harder to hear the house and feel warm inside.

 

[kittyP]

Does the landlord live in the house too? If so then he probably can do this but if not why is he even coming into the property let alone fucking with the heating?

No he doesn't even live in the country most of the time.

He's not coming in, it's his "property manager" who also stores all his tools and equipment in our basement so is always coming in and out

 

[8ball]

I know this is maybe unhelpful but it is in fact true (against what common sense says) that the heating on constantly uses less energy than having it on twice a day and heating it up in a big rush. Especially if its a lower temperature. Maybe it would be possible to request...

This is, at the very best, contested.
With very good insulation, in relatively balmy climes, it may be true (the argument assumes a low temperature difference between inside and outside, and good insulation).

There can be exceptions, obv, and in the end, the best way is to try it for a week each way, but I'd put my money on just heating it while you are in/awake being better, so long as warmup time and overnight temps don't mean spending a lot of time feeling cold.

I suspect the property manager is actually doing this to try to evaporate some of the damp due to complaints.

 

[danski]

No he doesn't even live in the country most of the time.

He's not coming in, it's his "property manager" who also stores all his tools and equipment in our basement so is always coming in and out

Maybe the property manager needs to stump up a bit of cash as his tools are being kept there.

 

[kittyP]

I know this is maybe unhelpful but it is in fact true (against what common sense says) that the heating on constantly uses less energy than having it on twice a day and heating it up in a big rush. Especially if its a lower temperature. Maybe it would be possible to request...

a) A lower set temperature for the heating e.g. 18-19 degrees.
b) Bills to be shared in a fairer way, ie you paying a smaller proportion.
c) proper insulating and draftstripping of the house to reduce the bills. Its unacceptable theyre not doing anything...
d) damp and mould getting sorted as this is bad for your health and also makes it harder to hear the house and feel warm inside.

I have looked into the first bit and a guardian article said it is more economical to keep it on if your home all the time and want to be warm rather than turning it on and off but the more you're boiler is on of course the more you're paying. And heating a house that no one is in or heating it up over night is just wasting money.
It doesn't go off off ever just set at 10°.

The people who live downstairs are really unhappy about this too, they shouldn't be paying more than me.

I would love the landlord to sort out all the other issues but he's shit. It ain't going to happen and when we complain about the mould the property manager tells us it's our fault for turning heating back to set times.

 

[kittyP]

Maybe the property manager needs to stump up a bit of cash as his tools are being kept there.

That's not going to happen

 

[Riklet]

Are you in a renters union like Acorn or London Renters Union? They have had a lot of successes recently.. the Bristol branch achieved good stuff anyway. They are always keen to take a more active approach to force landlords into action. With that young 2 year old kid dying from mould recently everything is on your side to push for better.

The building manager is wrong that heating will solve the damp. It wont. Only ventilation can fix damp.. or addressing where it's coming from in the first place.

 

[quiet guy]

Try contacting the local council to see if they can come round to see the set up and advise regarding the issues you've highlighted regarding poor/ non- existent maintenance and existing mould issues.

 

[Pickman's model]

Try contacting the local council to see if they can come round to see the set up and advise regarding the issues you've highlighted regarding poor/ non- existent maintenance and existing mould issues.

This, look for the tenancy relations officer or similar

 

[kittyP]

Are you in a renters union like Acorn or London Renters Union? They have had a lot of successes recently.. the Bristol branch achieved good stuff anyway. They are always keen to take a more active approach to force landlords into action. With that young 2 year old kid dying from mould recently everything is on your side to push for better.

The building manager is wrong that heating will solve the damp. It wont. Only ventilation can fix damp.. or addressing where it's coming from in the first place.

I think I did look at the London Renters Union, I'll have another look.

 

[kittyP]

Try contacting the local council to see if they can come round to see the set up and advise regarding the issues you've highlighted regarding poor/ non- existent maintenance and existing mould issues.

I need to be careful as I am pretty sure that they want me to move out so they can do the flat up and rent it at triple the price.
I can't afford to move and I can't afford a rent increase.

 

[Boudicca]

Then you may have to do some research on the best way to manage the damp issue without it costing a fortune. Present it to the property manager, say that this is what we are going to do and now keep your sticky fingers off the thermostat.

 

[Winot]

My gut feeling is that the landlord/his representative doesn’t have the legal right to control the heating. I’d check that with Shelter or someone though. If it’s right I’d start with a letter to the landlord copied to the property manager telling him to stop.

 

[Pickman's model]

I need to be careful as I am pretty sure that they want me to move out so they can do the flat up and rent it at triple the price.
I can't afford to move and I can't afford a rent increase.

Is there a damp course in the house you're aware of?

 

[two sheds]

What I read suggested that heating on continuously is better if it prevents water from condensing out. If it's not on continuously then you have to evaporate the water that's condensed out into the insulation for example, and that takes more energy. However I doubt that applies if you're only having the heating on in the evening since having it on throughout the day is going to take a lot of energy.

 

[kalmatthew]

No he doesn't even live in the country most of the time.

He's not coming in, it's his "property manager" who also stores all his tools and equipment in our basement so is always coming in and out

That last paragraph feels like it might be the underlying cause and one I'd of thought shelter etc would be able to help with. You should be able to enjoy quiet enjoyment of your property and the landlord or their agent should need to give notice to gain access.

 

[kittyP]

Thanks all.
I'm not really coping at all well at the moment and I am at my parents now for the rest of the week.
I think other tenants are going to try to talk to property manager on Thursday.

 

[kittyP]

I contacted the London Renters Union the other day but understandably they are experiencing a high level of requests for support at this time.
We'll see what happens and what the bills look like in December.

 

[kittyP]

Then you may have to do some research on the best way to manage the damp issue without it costing a fortune. Present it to the property manager, say that this is what we are going to do and now keep your sticky fingers off the thermostat.

I'm in discussion with other residents and we are trying to come from this approach.