Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Looby]

Yes.

Yes what?

 

[ffsear]

Given the verdict here, I'd be obliged if posters trod warily.

I'd close the thread mate, or you're gonna have your work cut out for the next few weeks!

 

[crossthebreeze]

It does seem a backwards step to effective allow a woman's past sex life to come under such scrutiny. I can only imagine that they had something very specific to say about a tendency to forget sex to which she had consented. That's the only thing which could, at a push, be sufficient relevant to allow the defence to call them.

I guess that what would be relevant is if ex partners had given evidence of times when after she had consumed alcohol, she did not appear drunk and seemed capable of making decisions, but had blacked out by the next day - I have no idea if evidence like that was given, but there would be no reason to give "explicit details" of her sex life as part of that evidence, except to appeal to any sexist attitudes of the jurors.

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

She didn't make the complaint of rape. She made a complaint that her drink may have been spiked. The police pursued a rape charge arising from their investigations. Your phrasing is disgusting. Women do not "cry rape".

That's just what it was called when I was growing up. I make no apologies for not dressing up my words to suit you.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'd close the thread mate, or you're gonna have your work cut out for the next few weeks!

Evans is hardly gonna sue is he?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes.

Yes?

 

[crossthebreeze]

That's just what it was called when I was growing up. I make no apologies for not dressing up my words to suit you.

And presumably now you have grown up, so you can now begin to consider how some phrases have a history of being used against women and other vulnerable groups, and rape victims in general. Or are you too selfish to think about that?

 

[trashpony]

Ched Evans is still a rapist. Just one that's got away with it. Like 90% of rapists

 

[D'wards]

She didn't 'cry rape'


So. Does a history of enjoying group sex make you more deserving of rape?

I dunno - i'm just speculating as to what evidence the defence put forward from witnesses regarding her previous sex life.
NB - are you attacking specifically me or just the contention you put forward in general?

 

[bimble]

SqueakyBumTime you might be old but you haven't finished growing up yet.

 

[DotCommunist]

Ched Evans is still a rapist. Just one that's got away with it. Like 90% of rapists

yep.

that dodgy 50k says it all. Bought

 

[Dowie]

The report says they gave "explicit evidence about her sex life". However his lawyers managed to get around this, this crosses a line or legal protection for rape victims, and its absolutely outrageous that it was allowed whatever they actually said. Other grounds may or may not have been found for his aquittal, but firstly this plays to any sexist/misogynistic or conservative attitudes that jury members may have, and secondly it may have blurred the legal line (ie if they testified she had consented to a similar sexual scenario before with other partners, legally every partner has to get consent every time, but mentioning past sexual history may blur this legal fact in the minds of the jury). Remember she had no recall of the night in question, it was police who bought the case, so any evidence about her trustworthiness is irrelevant.

I'm very worried that this will set some sort of precedent (either legally or morally) and that rape victims will be less protected, and less likely to make complaints.

while not wanting to apologise for Ched in this case I can certainly see both sides of that argument re: sexual history

if a jury is looking at this from the perspective of it being rather unlikely that a woman would agree to a threesome on a whim like that as they certainly(or they believe women they know) wouldn't do anything of the sort... it isn't exactly the full picture. If she's regularly had threesomes in the past and simply can't remember what happened in this instance then the probability changes rather a lot based on the condition that she enjoys threesomes and one night stands. As she's not made a complaint of rape but stated that she can't remember and given that she's had threesomes before there would surely be plenty of reasonable doubt here for the jury. That isn't to say that this should be the case in general, especially when the victim is making an allegation of rape rather than a statement that they can't remember anything.

 

[Spymaster]

I guess that what would be relevant is if ex partners had given evidence of times when after she had consumed alcohol, she did not appear drunk and seemed capable of making decisions, but had blacked out by the next day - I have no idea if evidence like that was given, but there would be no reason to give "explicit details" of her sex life as part of that evidence, except to appeal to any sexist attitudes of the jurors.

Of course, the evidence of her past sexual conduct may not have benn what they cleared him on. Perhaps the evidence was much stronger and will come out, given time.

At the moment all we can be sure about is that whatever it was, it was compelling enough for the first verdict to be quashed, and furthermore, for a jury (seven of whom were women), to acquit him at the second trial.

 

[killer b]

Ched Evans is still a rapist. Just one that's got away with it. Like 90% of rapists

90% seems a generous estimate. I'd be surprised if it was more than one in a hundred convicted.

 

[Spymaster]

Ched Evans is still a rapist. Just one that's got away with it. Like 90% of rapists

This is precisely what the editor was asking people not to do on the previous page.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I dunno - i'm just speculating as to what evidence the defence put forward from witnesses regarding her previous sex life.
NB - are you attacking specifically me or just the contention you put forward in general?

There's no speculation needed, it was all in open court; Evans produced 2 men who claimed she has enjoyed rough sex with them, said, 'Fuck me harder' and once had trouble remembering what had happened the night before. Both men were interviewed by police before the original trial, neither mentioned these things until after the trail and only once £50,000 was offered to anyone who could help acquit Evans.

 

[hegley]

I dunno - i'm just speculating as to what evidence the defence put forward from witnesses regarding her previous sex life.

Think it's pretty much covered here: Second Ched Evans defence witness denies £50,000 reward motive

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

This is precisely what the editor was asking people not to do on the previous page.

Evans is hardly gonna sue is he?

 

[Spymaster]

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Remarks like that are now libellous. I can understand why the site owner would be twitchy about them.

 

[hegley]

while not wanting to apologise for Ched in this case I can certainly see both sides of that argument re: sexual history

No, just no. If I go out for the next 100 nights and have wild sex with a different man each night, and then on the 101st night I'm not up for it, with anyone - the previous 100 nights are irrelevant to this particular night. Why is this so difficult to understand.

 

[Ranbay]

have to turn the internet off now, cant read any more "she should be raped" posts.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Remarks like that are now libellous. I can understand why the site owner would be twitchy about them.

Rapey fucker will not be wishing to spend any more time in court.

 

[D'wards]

There's no speculation needed, it was all in open court; Evans produced 2 men who claimed she has enjoyed rough sex with them, said, 'Fuck me harder' and once had trouble remembering what had happened the night before. Both men were interviewed by police before the original trial, neither mentioned these things until after the trail and only once £50,000 was offered to anyone who could help acquit Evans.

I am i no way defending Evans or what the judge allowed in this trial, but i just read the book Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi, who was Charles Manson's prosecutor. One thing i find interesting, is that he likes to interview witnesses many times. He contends that he has been given new vital information about a case on the 8th interview with a witness.

 

[D'wards]

have to turn the internet off now, cant read any more "she should be raped" posts.

Here are you reading this? I would hazard a guess at t*****r

 

[Pickman's model]

Rapey fucker will not be wishing to spend any more time in court.

let's hope not, eh.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I am i no way defending Evans or what the judge allowed in this trial, but i just read the book Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi, who was Charles Manson's prosecutor. One thing i find interesting, is that he likes to interview witnesses many times. He contends that he has been given new vital information about a case on the 8th interview with a witness.

That's how insurance companies and Ben Gurion airport security quiz people; repeating the same questions. Neither offer £50,000 though...

 

[Ranbay]

Here are you reading this? I would hazard a guess at t*****r

you what?

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

And presumably now you have grown up, so you can now begin to consider how some phrases have a history of being used against women and other vulnerable groups, and rape victims in general. Or are you too selfish to think about that?

You're right. I don't spend too much time wondering whether throwaway comments on bulletin boards have a history of anything much. I just say what I think at the time.

Although you might yourself consider that Evans is also a victim here, since he was convicted and imprisoned for a crime of which he has been subsequently acquitted.

SqueakyBumTime you might be old but you haven't finished growing up yet.

Very true.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Although you might yourself consider that Evans is also a victim here, since he was convicted and imprisoned for a crime of which he has been subsequently acquitted.

 

[D'wards]

you what?

Ahem, Twitter

Its a bloodbath over there