Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Athos]

Well that stands regardless of what you and I agree or disagree on.

It was clearly stated that women have been prosecuted for raping men. They haven't.

I will however, apologise to equationgirl for the aggressive manner in which I made that point on Sunday night.

Yes, I've never argued that they have, merely that they could be, even to the extent of standing trial alone (albeit they couldn't commit the offence alone).

You're right to apologise, though.

 

[equationgirl]

Thank you for your apology Spymaster.

 

[toggle]

Two men talking about whether women can rape men on a thread about a man who raped a woman. Shabby.

not really a problem. if there is a real or perceived gender bias in the law then it should be discussed. it needs to be discussed. because those ideas on how the law may be unfair is likely to hinder achieving justice for victims. that discussion is far less offensive than the people who have heard the misinformation spread about this case and come here to cast aspersion on the victim.

 

[Spymaster]

Thank you for your apology Spymaster.

Thanks for accepting it.

 

[toggle]

don't know why you liked my last post. you were one of the people i had in mind when i commented on those who had made offensive assertions about the victim

I haven't read the whole thread so apologise if this hasn't been mentioned earlier.

The Birmingham 6 were found guilty and expressed no remorse, would everyone hold the same opinion about their lack of remorse in light of what we know now.?

There is something about this case that doesn't ring true with me, not least the fact that it is alleged that the victim had previously made rape allegations against 2 other prominent sportsman , one a cricketer and one a rugby league player!

 

[Grandma Death]

If that were the case then McDonald would have been convicted too. As Athos has pointed out several times, the bloke can have a reasonable belief that she consented, even if in fact she actually hadn't.

Course a man can think he has reasonable belief he had consent-but equally I think its unreasonable and wrong on all levels for a man to not realise consent is a moving feast. So how a woman may behave at the start of the night is different to whats shes like at the end of the night. Lets put it this way-if a woman I met was all over me and begging me for sex-if by the end of the night she was in such a knot I wouldnt assume I could have sex with her based on her behaviour several hours previously.

 

[belboid]

Rapist to be retried in October - Ched Evans: Footballer's rape retrial in October - BBC News

 

[Wilf]

Football, doing the right thing.

Chesterfield sign Ched Evans three months before rape retrial begins

 

[Spymaster]

Nothing wrong with that so long as he loses the job if he's found guilty. Unless you think that people awaiting trial should not be employed?

 

[Wilf]

Nothing wrong with that so long as he loses the job if he's found guilty. Unless you think that people awaiting trial should not be employed?

this case doesn't reduce itself down to that level of formality. It's a high profile decision to employ someone who remains accused of rape - and to employ him in the run up to his trial.

 

[belboid]

Hmm, I susp

this case doesn't reduce itself down to that level of formality. It's a high profile decision to employ someone who remains accused of rape - and to employ him in the run up to his trial.

hmm, I suspect from that that I'm very grateful to have spewmaster on ignore

For someone so prominently accused of rape to be offered a relatively high profile job in the run up to their trial is grotesquely unusual, to say the least.

 

[Wilf]

Hmm, I susp

hmm, I suspect from that that I'm very grateful to have spewmaster on ignore

For someone so prominently accused of rape to be offered a relatively high profile job in the run up to their trial is grotesquely unusual, to say the least.

Indeed. This isn't someone with no savings, getting a normal job, incidentally in the run up to a trial. It's high profile and hard not to read as anything other than a statement of confidence in him. Of course, formally it isn't that - it's just crude self interest by Chesterfield, getting in before other clubs. However, in the circumstances of this case, it's a very public process of normalisation for him.

 

[existentialist]

Football, doing the right thing.

Chesterfield sign Ched Evans three months before rape retrial begins

Nothing wrong with that so long as he loses the job if he's found guilty. Unless you think that people awaiting trial should not be employed?

There's nothing wrong with it, in a "can't touch me for it, coppah!" sense, but, when viewed against the general mentality that the football industry and its fans tend to display towards sexual assaults, it's hard not to think that it fits in to that mentality rather seamlessly. Most organisations, particularly ones so much in the public eye as a football club, would be very uncomfortable about employing someone who has admitted some pretty discreditable behaviour, even if he is denying actual rape.

One would have thought that football in general, given the prevalence of footballers involved in sexual assault cases (there's a selection here: List of professional sportspeople convicted of crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), not to mention the plethora of other convictions for serious offences, would be wanting to put their house in order and presenting a picture of at least some degree of probity.

Instead of which, they seem to be immune to any suggestion that it's not just about whether someone got convicted, but maybe about their standard of behaviour in general.

In most professional professions (I'll try not to snobbishly excuse footballers from that), a remotely credible allegation would be enough to take them out of circulation until they'd been cleared of wrongdoing, and morally dubious behaviour, regardless of conviction, would be reason enough to disbar them.

Football seems to take a bit of a Norman Fletcher ("Porridge") approach to the whole thing - you get punished for getting caught, not for the offence, and it's all somehow someone else's fault/problem.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

He'll either be found guilty, in which case Chesterfield will have to sack him or deal with having a (twice) convicted rapist on the squad. Or he'll be found not guilty. If the latter we'll only know what he's used for the appeal at his new trial, I suspect it will turn out to be something pretty dubious or else it would have been offered as a defense at the first trial, and they'll have to deal with having a cunt on their squad who's wormed his way out of a rape charge. Either way Chesterfield are hardly going to cover themselves in glory here, but as long as they can get their grubby mitts on some lucre they will.

 

[Spymaster]

... If the latter we'll only know what he's used for the appeal at his new trial, I suspect it will turn out to be something pretty dubious or else it would have been offered as a defense at the first trial...

Its more likely to be something they didn't know about or couldn't prove the first time around.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Its more likely to be something they didn't know about or couldn't prove the first time around.

We shouldn't speculate too deeply as I assume it is sub judice, but what is there to know that wasn't known? Other than a confession from the woman that she consented?

 

[butchersapron]

but, when viewed against the general mentality that the football industry and its fans tend to display towards sexual assaults,.

What are these fan displays then?

 

[existentialist]

What are these fan displays then?

There's been some quite nasty victim-blaming in both the Evans and the Adam Johnston cases, as I recall.

 

[Spymaster]

We shouldn't speculate too deeply as I assume it is sub judice, but what is there to know that wasn't known? Other than a confession from the woman that she consented?

I dunno, perhaps a confidence that she shared with someone else who fessed up afterwards, or similar. I just think it's unlikely to be something that could have been offered by the defence at the first trial because it was obviously compelling enough to have the conviction quashed. If they'd had access to that weight of information I'd have expected them to use it to try to get an acquittal.

 

[butchersapron]

There's been some quite nasty victim-blaming in both the Evans and the Adam Johnston cases, as I recall.

And that is a characterization of fans that you;re going to run with - rather than the 1000s of people singing songs against him week after week?

 

[butchersapron]

There's been some quite nasty victim-blaming in both the Evans and the Adam Johnston cases, as I recall.

Where did fans do this then? If you can recall.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I dunno, perhaps a confidence that she shared with someone else who fessed up afterwards, or similar. I just think it's unlikely to be something that could have been offered by the defence at the first trial because it was obviously compelling enough to have the conviction quashed. If they'd had access to that weight of information I'd have expected them to use it to try to get an acquittal.

It'll be interesting to find out. The strangest thing was the CPS announcing they would go for a new trial if it was quashed, which points to the new evidence being enough to quash, but not in their opinion enough to prevent an acquittal at a full trial. Really would love to know what it is!

 

[equationgirl]

It will be interesting to see the new evidence, as I've said before.

 

[existentialist]

And that is a characterization of fans that you;re going to run with - rather than the 1000s of people singing songs against him week after week?

I don't think I ever said - or implied - that every football fan in the land was quietly (or noisily) supporting either of them. I take your point, though, the noisy minority aren't representative. I don't think that defence really applies where the clubs are concerned, though.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think I ever said - or implied - that every football fan in the land was quietly (or noisily) supporting either of them. I take your point, though, the noisy minority aren't representative. I don't think that defence really applies where the clubs are concerned, though.

There's nothing wrong with it, in a "can't touch me for it, coppah!" sense, but, when viewed against the general mentality that the football industry and its fans tend to display towards sexual assaults, it's hard not to think that it fits in to that mentality rather seamlessly.

 

[existentialist]

OK, fair enough. I shan't actually go back and edit in "some of [its fans]", but I hope we can agree that it's fairly unlikely that I was assuming that every football fan holds a universally negative attitude towards the victims of sexual assaults perpetrated by footballers.

If that wasn't unlikely, then let it henceforth be the case.

 

[JimW]

The only comments I've seen from Chesterfield supporters on 1FF are wondering if they can face going while Evans is in the squad. One said if it was a choice between relegation and Evans he'd take relegation.

 

[Spymaster]

Really would love to know what it is!

Indeed. You also have to wonder what Chesterfield have read into it as it's unlikely they'd have given him a contract without having their lawyers go over the new evidence or at least being told what it is.

 

[Sprocket.]

Crooked and Chesterfield always go together!
I am hearing Chedsterfield already from Barnsley fans!

 

[Wilf]

With routine apologies for the source, this...

Ched Evans signs one-year deal with Chesterfield

... suggests, it's more than an opportunist grab for a player in the period while he is still free of a conviction. Chesterfield manager, Danny Wilson has been playing a long game

Chesterfield made their shock move after a detailed discussion of new evidence with the player and his representatives.

The club are confident that Evans will complete a prolonged fight to clear his name.

Chesterfield boss Danny Wilson was the Sheffield United manager when Evans was convicted in April 2012 and has always supported the player in private.
Wilson even made secret prison visits to maintain the relationship they forged at Bramall Lane.

This though

It is believed Wales are also monitoring developments with a decision pending on re-integrating the player into their senior squad.

Seems like journalistic bullshit. Even setting aside the rape stuff, there's not a chance that Wales would be actively thinking of picking somebody who hasn't played for 4 years.