Abortion deleted from UK Government-organised international human rights statement

[bluescreen]

You get the pro-life talking about “killing babies” etc. and I think that is abhorrent, but I don’t think using a term like “abort an unborn child” is quite in that bracket, and I think we have to accept that different people will draw different lines with this.

I do think that translating everything into Latinate biological language can obscure the decision that is being made, and I think it should be a carefully considered and frankly difficult decision (which it has been for every woman I’ve known who has had any non pill-based abortion). And if it’s an easy decision I’d hope that was entirely based on the factors overwhelmingly pushing in one direction.
And then when the decision has been made it should be entirely between the woman concerned and medical staff and the rest of the world should really butt out.

There is an impulse in the pro-choice lobby to trivialise the life of a foetus. I agree that the choice must start and end with the woman concerned, but I don’t agree that either side of the choice is trivial.

I also don’t agree that it’s ever my call. I’m not denying anyone any rights whatsoever.

Tbh I feel quite lucky that it’s not a call I’ll ever have to make.

Well, it's very good for you to have an opinion on it, and to share it with us.

 

[kittyP]

You get the pro-life talking about “killing babies” etc. and I think that is abhorrent, but I don’t think using a term like “abort an unborn child” is quite in that bracket, and I think we have to accept that different people will draw different lines with this.

I do think that translating everything into Latinate biological language can obscure the decision that is being made, and I think it should be a carefully considered and frankly difficult decision (which it has been for every woman I’ve known who has had any non pill-based abortion). And if it’s an easy decision I’d hope that was entirely based on the factors overwhelmingly pushing in one direction.
And then when the decision has been made it should be entirely between the woman concerned and medical staff and the rest of the world should really butt out.

There is an impulse in the pro-choice lobby to trivialise the life of a foetus. I agree that the choice must start and end with the woman concerned, but I don’t agree that either side of the choice is trivial.

I also don’t agree that it’s ever my call. I’m not denying anyone any rights whatsoever.

Tbh I feel quite lucky that it’s not a call I’ll ever have to make.

So from what you are saying you think that if it is a cut a dry, quick, easy (easy because that is of course what is best and right for them) that equates to being a "trivial" decision?

You are judging.
If a women just doesn't want to be pregnant, it doesn't have to be a difficult and tortuous decision, we don't have to carry the weight of it for the rest of our lives. sometimes it's just the right thing to do and is easy to decide and that's fine

Or should we all beat ourselves up in your opinion?

 

[8ball]

Well, it's very good for you to have an opinion on it, and to share it with us.

It was you that started asking questions.

 

[bluescreen]

So from what you are saying you think that if it is a cut a dry, quick, easy (easy because that is of course what is best and right for them) that equates to being a "trivial" decision?

You are judging.
If a women just doesn't want to be pregnant, it doesn't have to be a difficult and tortuous decision, we don't have to carry the weight of it for the rest of our lives. sometimes it's just the right thing to do and is easy to decide and that's fine

Or should we all beat ourselves up in your opinion?

I'm not convinced any woman should give a fig for his opinion.

 

[8ball]

So from what you are saying you think that if it is a cut a dry, quick, easy (easy because that is of course what is best and right for them) that equates to being a "trivial" decision?

You are judging.
If a women just doesn't want to be pregnant, it doesn't have to be a difficult and tortuous decision, we don't have to carry the weight of it for the rest of our lives. sometimes it's just the right thing to do and is easy to decide and that's fine

Or should we all beat ourselves up in your opinion?

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

 

[8ball]

I'm not convinced any woman should give a fig for his opinion.

I’ve said plenty of times now that my opinion isn’t something that should be factored into things.
Which part of “pro choice” is causing you confusion?

 

[bluescreen]

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

Why? What has it to do with you?

 

[8ball]

Why? What has it to do with you?

Because I don’t live on an atomised island completely separately to everyone else.

 

[bluescreen]

This is not the time nor the place to remind men how important it is never to ejaculate irresponsibly.
I apologise for any offence my comment may have caused.

 

[kittyP]

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

Well then I don't think you are as pro-choice as you propose to be.

 

[8ball]

This is not the time nor the place to remind men how important it is never to ejaculate irresponsibly.
I apologise for any offence my comment may have caused.

Do you have no thoughts outside of the flowchart on your crib sheet?

 

[8ball]

Well then I don't think you are as pro-choice as you propose to be.

I think you don’t understand the concepts of either what it is to be pro-choice, or the concept of tolerance.

Though re: your previous point about ejaculating irresponsibly.

I’m coming around on that.

 

[bluescreen]

Do you have no thoughts outside of the flowchart on your crib sheet?

Do you have no concept of the depth of a hole?

I'm sure you'll be delighted to hear it's been infuriating talking to you and I'm sure you'll chalk it up as a win if I retire now because I'm tired of your posturing.

ETA and it's late

 

[kittyP]

I think you don’t understand the concepts of either what it is to be pro-choice, or the concept of tolerance.

You either believe a woman has a right to choose, end of,, or you are not pro-choice.

You can't start drawing lines about how seriously they are taking it or else it all falls down.
Who is to be the moral arbiter about just how seriously the decision is being taken?

 

[8ball]

You either believe a woman has a right to choose, end of,, or you are not pro-choice.

I’m not the moral arbiter. I’ve said this several times now about where the final choice has to lie.

 

[kittyP]

I’m not the moral arbiter. I’ve said this several times now about where the final choice has to lie.

So you are not the moral arbiter, the decision lies with the woman bur it shouldn't in your opinion ever be an easy decision?

 

[8ball]

Do you have no concept of the depth of a hole?

I'm sure you'll be delighted to hear it's been infuriating talking to you and I'm sure you'll chalk it up as a win if I retire now because I'm tired of your posturing.

ETA and it's late

People are sometimes going to disagree with you. That isn’t always an attack.

Anyway, good night.

 

[8ball]

So you are not the moral arbiter, the decision lies with the woman bur it shouldn't in your opinion ever be an easy decision?

Having an opinion doesn’t make me any kind of moral arbiter.

I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that I have such power in all of this.

 

[bluescreen]

Having an opinion doesn’t make me any kind of moral arbiter.

I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that I have such power in all of this.

I was just about to turn in... My usual tone is sarcasm but I don't need to even try here because the grin emoji tells us, doesn't it, how seriously you're taking this. It casts a light on your comment about "someone who took the decision totally casually" - that hypothetical "someone" who is more hypothetical than the person - you, in case it's unclear- who regards this as a matter of levity.
It is none of your business how seriously a woman takes the insults to her body or how resilient she is. If you had any respect for women you would stop venturing your opinion. If you continue to feel obliged to venture your opinion at least we know where you're coming from.

 

[kittyP]

Having an opinion doesn’t make me any kind of moral arbiter.

I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that I have such power in all of this.

I didn't say that, I was trying to clarify what you meant,. .

Essentially I disagree with you.
IMHO you are judging women's choices.

 

[8ball]

I was just about to turn in... My usual tone is sarcasm but I don't need to even try here because the grin emoji tells us, doesn't it, how seriously you're taking this. It casts a light on your comment about "someone who took the decision totally casually" - that hypothetical "someone" who is more hypothetical than the person - you, in case it's unclear- who regards this as a matter of levity.
It is none of your business how seriously a woman takes the insults to her body or how resilient she is. If you had any respect for women you would stop venturing your opinion. If you continue to feel obliged to venture your opinion at least we know where you're coming from.

Ah, so if I don’t shut up when told, I don’t respect women.

Well, one thing about being human is the privilege of taking responsibility for your interpretations.

 

[8ball]

I didn't say that, I was trying to clarify what you meant,. .

Essentially I disagree with you.
IMHO you are judging women's choices.

I’m not judging anyone’s particular choices. We all make some choices that are good and some that are less good.
There is no duty on anyone, male or female, to cheer on another person’s choice in any or all circumstances.

And disagreement is fine. That’s why we need tolerance. You can’t expect disparate people with all of their experiences and the information they have happened to come across and all the interpretation they have applied to this, to just agree on everything, surely.

 

[bluescreen]

Ah, so if I don’t shut up when told, I don’t respect women.

Well, one thing about being human is the privilege of taking responsibility for your interpretations.

How awful, for a man to be told to hold his wheesht!
That never happens to women.
It didn't happen to you either. Here you still are, blethering on. Here you go. The stage is all yours.

 

[8ball]

How awful, for a man to be told to hold his wheesht!
That never happens to women.
It didn't happen to you either. Here you still are, blethering on. Here you go. The stage is all yours.

Life is hard when people don’t agree with everything you say.

 

[mentalchik]

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

why ?

 

[NoXion]

Oh fuck me, he's been pulling that shitty "Mr Both Sides McSensible" bullshit again. How fucking tedious.

 

[Thora]

“Unborn child” is a ridiculous term for a foetus/embryo.

Love hearing from men who are pro-choice (so long as women really suffer from their decision to murder their baby!)

 

[Clair De Lune]

 

[Glitter]

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

What are you wondering? I can probably help you out.

 

[Poot]

I mean it is something to be taken seriously, but there are plenty of circumstances where I’d agree it’s clearly the best route.

I’m not saying anyone should beat themselves up but I’d wonder about someone who took the decision totally casually.

It's a gynaecological procedure. Sometimes it's just a pill. It doesn't require much thought.

Men are funny, aren't they?