A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Spymaster]

But the deals benefit those countries way more than us becuase they are being rushed through by a desperate government.

Can you give us some examples of this?

 

[glitch hiker]

Can you give us some examples of this?

Of what? It's in the process of happening now. The Government wants trade deals as quickly as possible, even though they normally take years.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Of what?

Do you have some concrete examples of this benefitting the other country way more please?

 

[ska invita]

The mistake that was made was the UK ever agreeing to impose checks on goods between GB and NI in the first place. That's where the line should have been held. UK food producers didn't suddenly change their recipes the day we left the EU. The food that's being exported to NI is, by and large, exactly the same stuff that's been sent there for the last 30-40 years. If the EU don't want the evil British produce filtering its way into Ireland in people's gloveboxes and pockets, let them make the checks.

The solution of course, is Irexit, which is now a real future possibilty.

If the UK wanted to have equal standards and no checks it could've signed up for that equivalence. It was ruled out as an absolute No Go.. Why? Because it would stand in the way of other trade deals... Such as hormone beef from Australia, etc etc.

It will take a little time for standards to "deviate" but the government has made explicit, deviation will occur.

There's been no "mistake".

 

[Spymaster]

So many things are possible

Interesting times ahead for Ireland. They're shitting themselves over the upcoming corporation tax reforms (which the EU is wholeheartedly behind) and surely it won't be long after Amazon, Paypal, eBay, et al, decamp (they employ a tenth of the Irish workforce) that their voters realise that the EU don't give a fuck about Ireland, as amply demonstrated with fishing rights, vaccination borders, etc

Of what? It's in the process of happening now. The Government wants trade deals as quickly as possible, even though they normally take years.

Yes, but can you give some examples of trade deals that have been done in a hurry and how they benefit the other side rather than the UK? .

 

[andysays]

You might buy new sheets and possibly even a new mattress depending on the scale of the shitting. So someone will make money out of it

As long as it's the British sheet and mattress industries that benefit...

 

[Spymaster]

If the UK wanted to have equal standards and no checks it could've signed up for that equivalence. It was ruled out as an absolute No Go.. Why? Because it would stand in the way of other trade deals... Such as hormone need from Australia, etc etc.

It will take a little time for standards to "deviate" but the government has made explicit, deviation will occur.

There's been no "mistake".

You're talking about equivalence between the UK and the EU. This is about the GB and NI. The mistake was when the UKG effectively agreed to the Irish Sea border with the NIP.

 

[glitch hiker]

Do you have some concrete examples of this benefitting the other country way more please?

British farming standards won't be able to compete against the vast industrial machine in places like Australia, while we are looking likely to give them more of the things they would want than we want because the government needs that deal.

 

[glitch hiker]

Interesting times ahead for Ireland. They're shitting themselves over the upcoming corporation tax reforms (which the EU is wholeheartedly behind) and surely it won't be long after Amazon, Paypal, eBay, et al, decamp (they employ a tenth of the Irish workforce) that their voters realise that the EU don't give a fuck about Ireland, as amply demonstrated with fishing rights, vaccination borders, etc



Yes, but can you give some examples of trade deals that have been done in a hurry and how they benefit the other side rather than the UK? .

AFAIK the only actual trade deal we've done so far is Norway.

 

[Spymaster]

AFAIK the only actual trade deal we've done so far is Norway.

Ok, well you're only about 70 out there, but since you know about the Norway one let's take that as an example.

How does the trade deal between the UK and Norway benefit Norway more than Britain?

 

[glitch hiker]

Ok, well you're only about 70 out there, but since you know about the Norway one let's take that as an example.

How does the trade deal between the UK and Norway benefit Norway more than Britain?

Are you talking about rollover arrangements or actual fresh trade deals?

I'm not sure whether that specific Norway deal benefits them more than us or not. AFACT they are still protectionist about Beef and (some) cheese while gaining on some of their seafood while our agriculture and fishing industry is having brexit problems.

I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

British farming standards won't be able to compete against the vast industrial machine in places like Australia, while we are looking likely to give them more of the things they would want than we want because the government needs that deal.

I understand Australia has vast cattle ranches, obviously being on the other side of the world they won't be able to supply fresh beef, so that market will stay with UK and Irish (possibly) producers, leaving Aussie meat to compete with South American, no?

 

[glitch hiker]

I understand Australia has vast cattle ranches, obviously being on the other side of the world they won't be able to supply fresh beef, so that market will stay with UK and Irish (possibly) producers, leaving Aussie meat to compete with South American, no?

I guess it depends what Aus wants from the deal. Is there any point if they aren't going to be able to supply what they want to sell because of the distance? If we can't likewise ship our beef over there, for the same reason as well as the scale of the domestic aussie market, then we aren't going to benefit either.

 

[two sheds]

The mistake that was made was the UK ever agreeing to impose checks on goods between GB and NI in the first place. That's where the line should have been held. UK food producers didn't suddenly change their recipes the day we left the EU. The food that's being exported to NI is, by and large, exactly the same stuff that's been sent there for the last 30-40 years.

I don't think that works - once we get American food with all its wonderful additives it could go straight across the border into the EU and ...

If the EU don't want the evil British produce filtering its way into Ireland in people's gloveboxes and pockets, let them make the checks.

Doesn't that mean a hard border between north and south? Which fucks the Good Friday Agreement.

The solution of course, is Irexit, which is now a real future possibilty.

Indeed

 

[brogdale]

Trade deals are only ever designed to advantage the capital from which the wealthy derive their unearned income; those negotiating them have no 'national' interest in them. The only drivers are accelerated global corporate accumulation and wealth defence.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I guess it depends what Aus wants from the deal. Is there any point if they aren't going to be able to supply what they want to sell because of the distance? If we can't likewise ship our beef over there, for the same reason as well as the scale of the domestic aussie market, then we aren't going to benefit either.

I think they way these things work is we accept their crappy beef, rather than Brazil and Argentina's, Oz then takes some of our crap in return, scotch, Welsh cakes and so on.

 

[Spymaster]

I don't think that works - once we get American food with all its wonderful additives it could go straight across the border into the EU and ...


Doesn't that mean a hard border between north and south? Which fucks the Good Friday Agreement.

Indeed

ht across the border into the EU and ..

 

[two sheds]

ht across the border into the EU and ..

ht?

and .. on to the rest of the EU so fucking their environmental and food regulations?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Doesn't that mean a hard border between north and south? Which fucks the Good Friday Agreement.

The solution to that is to put the checks on the border with Ireland and the mainland EU.

 

[Spymaster]

I don't think that works - once we get American food with all its wonderful additives it could go straight across the border into the EU and ...


Doesn't that mean a hard border between north and south? Which fucks the Good Friday Agreement.

Indeed

It doesn't need to be a hard border. It could be policed as it is now with spot checks on vehicles within Ireland. Smuggling has been going on between Northern and Southern Ireland since the towers came down. Now it's mainly fuel and booze. What happens at the moment is that you come across a PSNI road stop every now and then. The EU could do the same if they're so concerned. Whatever they decide to do won't be the UK govs fault so if that affects the GFA (no reason why it should except the EU being their usual arsehole selves) the IRA can get handy with Brussels.

 

[two sheds]

The solution to that is to put the checks on the border with Ireland and the EU.

Which buggers the central idea of the EU doesn't it? I'm not saying it wouldn't work but I can't see them agreeing to that.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Which buggers the central idea of the EU doesn't it? I'm not saying it wouldn't work but I can't see them agreeing to that.

Edited to add 'mainland' to EU.

There is already a border between Ireland and the mainland EU for people, that doesn't bugger the central idea of the EU, so why not sausages?

 

[two sheds]

It doesn't need to be a hard border. It could be policed as it is now with spot checks on vehicles within Ireland. Smuggling has been going on between Northern and Southern Ireland since the towers came down. What happens at the moment is that you come across a PSNI road stop every now and then. The EU could do the same if they're so concerned. Whatever they decide to do won't be the UK govs fault so if that affects the GFA (no reason why it should except the EU being their usual arsehole selves) the IRA can get handy with Brussels.

Indeed smuggling's been going on but it's not bothered the EU too much because both were in the EU. And it's hardly the EU's fault that Britain has gone back on its agreements (super-intelligent customs posts, no paperwork for exporters - which does actually make its the UK govs fault) so I can't see Brussels wanting the IRA's attention.

 

[two sheds]

Edited to add 'mainland' to EU.

There is already a border between Ireland and the mainland EU for people, that doesn't bugger the central idea of the EU, so why not sausages?

Border between Ireland and mainland EU for people? Apart from the channel you mean?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Border between Ireland and mainland EU for people? Apart from the channel you mean?

No, a hard border, manned with immigration officers at the ports and airports. You fly Paris to Malta there's no immigration officers or documents required, fly Paris to Dublin there are immigration officers and passports/id cards are needed.

 

[Spymaster]

Indeed smuggling's been going on but it's not bothered the EU too much because both were in the EU. And it's hardly the EU's fault that Britain has gone back on its agreements (super-intelligent customs posts, no paperwork for exporters - which does actually make its the UK govs fault) so I can't see Brussels wanting the IRA's attention.

Well of course they won't want it but they may not be given the choice. I agree with you about the government delaying/reneging on commitments but they should never have been made in the first place. This was the mistake referred to above.

The EU can, of course, still prevent all that dirty foreign produce from landing on their hallowed turf legally whilst maintaining the porous/non-existent border. That's the important bit.

 

[two sheds]

No, a hard border, manned with immigration officers at the ports and airports. You fly Paris to Malta there's no immigration officers or documents required, fly Paris to Dublin there are immigration officers and passports/id cards are needed.

Ah ok didn't realize that. Still major change if goods need to go through customs when they didn't before.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ah ok didn't realize that. Still major change if goods need to go through customs when they didn't before.

Just stick a customs officer in the booth with the immigration officer, piece of piss.

 

[two sheds]

Not sure a customs officer is going to be much use checking containerloads of stuff coming off a boat.

 

[two sheds]

I've not been too bothered about Brexit either way but I'm finding it a tad strange that a country that is no longer in the EU is demanding that the EU changes its rules in a fairly fundamental way. I'd thought we'd given up that right along with all the EU's disadvantages.

As Spy says, only real solution is for NI and Eire to join.