pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
I am intrigued by the idea that the UK might evolve into something better. A socialist utopia. England Willie Tory for a generation or two, looking at the electoral reality. Unfortunately.
A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
Yes. Got it in one. It always seems more fun in other European countries most of us visit on holiday. I go camping mostly on the south west France coast & I’ve been visiting for decades so hardly exotic & unusual for me but the buzz in the French seaside towns with a mix of European nationalities has always made them seem so much more fun than UK equivalents. Having said that I am British. I live here & so do my kids & grandkids so I am always going to be just a traveller on the face of the European mainland not a resident.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You're not going to go to Ireland then
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
Probably not again. I used to go in my truck on odd occasions. Last time in the late 90s I recall. Never to the north though. Always I would ship Holyhead Dublin. Yes I did enjoy the difference. I never used to bother to change up Irish punts though. The £ was worth slightly more so they were always happy to take £s. No time to hang around though. Off the boat straight to destinations & back to dock.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
One in four small UK exporters end sales to the EU due to costs.
www.bloomberg.com
One in Four Small U.K. Exporters Halt EU Sales Amid Brexit Costs
One in four small U.K. exporters have halted sales to the European Union because of red tape caused by Brexit, according to a survey published Monday.
www.bloomberg.com
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
In the 70s when workers were taking a higher % of GDP as wages than any time? When the Gini coefficient was at its lowest?
This is the type of nonsense that was claimed by the New Left in the 90s/00s - we're all getting richer - income inequality has increased in France since the 80s. Do not mistake the success of capital, "the economy", in stealing more with "prosperity".
TopCat
Putin fanboy
One in four small UK exporters end sales to the EU due to costs.
One in Four Small U.K. Exporters Halt EU Sales Amid Brexit Costs
One in four small U.K. exporters have halted sales to the European Union because of red tape caused by Brexit, according to a survey published Monday.
UK exports to EU rebound partially after January's slump
Despite the improvement, exports still remain below 2020 levels, the UK statistics body says.
www.bbc.co.uk
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Yeah I just heard that on the radio. Good news for once.UK exports to EU rebound partially after January's slump
Despite the improvement, exports still remain below 2020 levels, the UK statistics body says.www.bbc.co.uk
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Interesting that imports from the EU are dramatically down. Given the light touch import paperwork for EU imports this is puzzling.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
One in four small UK exporters end sales to the EU due to costs.
One in Four Small U.K. Exporters Halt EU Sales Amid Brexit Costs
One in four small U.K. exporters have halted sales to the European Union because of red tape caused by Brexit, according to a survey published Monday.
based on
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
And how is Tory Brexit going to fix this, exactly?
gosub
~#
I think the tory plan for redressing the balance is for all the disadvantaged to die
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
Higher GDP is only good if the government spends it on improvements to social services not tax cuts for the wealthy. Foreign investment is good if it builds a factory to provide local jobs but not so good if it buys existing UK factories & then closes them & moves production overseas. I think present government is only interested in investment to keep itself in power not investment for the common good.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
This response illustrates the accuracy of Smokeandsteam's post.
I'm not making any claim about the advantages/disadvantages of the UK leaving the EU, I'm criticising the underlying 'economic' thinking that says that things were bad for workers in the UK in the 70s, that workers in France are better off now than they were 3 decades ago.
You talk about Thatcherism happening in the UK as opposed to what is happening in the EU, but of course Thatcher was in favour of the EU, she understood it as a tool to attack labour.
EDIT: The anti-Thatcherism of France
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It's also worth remembering also that in France that the political consequences of the 'rising prosperity' of the country will produce a second election run off between the wildly unpopular and discredited neo-liberal Europhile Macron and a bunch of fascists. The latter enjoying continuing levels of support in the deindustrialised north of France (previously strongholds for the CP and socialists) and among young people. The former creating the 'yellow vests', sparking periodic riots in the banlieu's and mass action among the organised working class such is the extent of the 'rising prosperity'....
Government urged to reveal lorry park report
Local politicians are putting pressure on the government to release a report into the environmental impact of a 66-acre lorry park.
www.kentonline.co.uk
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It's not love for a neoliberal superstate in so much as it's looking at the people behind brexit - the rees moggs, raabs, johnsons and farages and knowing instinctively that I disagree with their politics and their vision. I'm not sure why any liberal or left person wouldn't.
gosub
~#
Government urged to reveal lorry park report
Local politicians are putting pressure on the government to release a report into the environmental impact of a 66-acre lorry park.www.kentonline.co.uk
I can report that locally our supermarket environment is well stocked. But I don't live in Kent so they probably don't care
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
Unfortunately, I think we have to conclude that the CP and socialist parties are failing everywhere, inside or outside the EU.
My fear is that it will be worse outside the EU.As with a lot of the political posts on Urban, the conclusion seems to be that the fault is with the WC for not knowing what's good for 'em. They could have voted for nice middle class Mr. Corbyn; he know exactly what was good for the WC.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Unfortunately, I think we have to conclude that the CP and socialist parties are failing everywhere, inside or outside the EU.
As with a lot of the political posts on Urban, the conclusion seems to be that the fault is with the WC for not knowing what's good for 'em. They could have voted for nice middle class Mr. Corbyn; he know exactly what was good for the WC.
I've genuinely got no idea how you've started by replying to my post about the dominant cultural, political and class origins of continuity remain and arrived at that conclusion....
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Because we aren’t as clever as the vanguard Lexiteers.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Replace the names with Cameron, May, Brown, Blair, Barnier, Van de Leys. Fuck that bunch.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
It's a choice of who you'd rather be fucked by and I'd rather be fucked by the supra state hobbled by its own incompetence and paperwork than stuck on an island living on omlete du farage and cleaning for the Queen.
We left so it's increasingly not going to matter, but I'd rather have had 4 years of status quo than the shit show comedy that was 2016 onwards and I'm certainly not going to be grateful we left or think it was a good idea.
Maybe in 50 years as a result of this we'll get a socialist utopia that justifies it but the immediate fallout isn't looking like fun times.
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not a trot
Well-Known Member
Jimmy Dyson was on the BBC this morning celebrating his new found freedoms. Cunt can shove his overpriced products right up his arse.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Ideally, while powered on.
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
I don’t think that is quite correct. There is often reports about this on R4 news & Guardian website. Anybody interested in this can get plenty of UK based news about it. The right wing newspapers may not report about it much & when they do it puts it in the context of EU punishment but who buys newspapers apart from tory/brexit voting old people with time & inclination to read them ? It is not really headline news anymore which Is why it does not make the headlines.
Of course all news should be reported but what Is the point of complaining as if this will suddenly make leavers see the light & want to rejoin ? It will not. If you are not in a customs union then imports & exports require customs clearance. Customs paperwork has to be accurate & correct or goods are delayed until mistakes are corrected. It has always been thus. Welcome to the new reality. It is not going to change anytime soon.
It is already resulting in a large expansion of the customs clearance sector with mostly well paid jobs being created. Even the Kent lorry park being moaned about by leave voting NIMBYs has created plenty of new local jobs.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
People with cats
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
Would it have been politically different if remain had won ? Cameron & Osborne would have stayed in power & there would have been a GE in 2020. Would a left wing socialist Labour been any more likely to have won that election ? I think Cameron had stated he did not want to stay as PM for more than the term of his last government & Osborne would have liked to have been PM but who knows ? Johnson could well have become PM anyway.
One could argue that we could have had a “softer“ brexit & remained in the single market/customs union but that would have not worked because we would have had do the EU’s bidding with no seat at the table. Imagine the rows that would have caused ? The difficulty we have now with EU trade is because what we have done makes no logical sense. Leaving the EU makes no logical sense so one can excuse the EU having a wtf ? moment. What we are doing is trying to find ways of making trade easier after deliberately making it more difficult.
Fact remains though that the only way forward is to improve customs procedures & as both sides become more familiar with it then it will. Obviously trade will cost more because customs procedures cost money. Both sides will have to become used to what we have now.
One could argue that we could have had a “softer“ brexit & remained in the single market/customs union but that would have not worked because we would have had do the EU’s bidding with no seat at the table. Imagine the rows that would have caused ? The difficulty we have now with EU trade is because what we have done makes no logical sense. Leaving the EU makes no logical sense so one can excuse the EU having a wtf ? moment. What we are doing is trying to find ways of making trade easier after deliberately making it more difficult.
Fact remains though that the only way forward is to improve customs procedures & as both sides become more familiar with it then it will. Obviously trade will cost more because customs procedures cost money. Both sides will have to become used to what we have now.
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