A thank you to Brexiteers.

[brogdale]

That, I'd have thought, goes without saying. However, addressing the historically low levels of balance of payments, the record low levels of investment, the obsessions with outsourcing and offshoring, the low levels of public ownership and absence of a central direction of a national and strategic industrial strategy are all entirely possible.

Not sure what you mean by low levels of balance of payments but, since leaving the supra state's single market, all of the metrics for the UK's BoP have deteriorated negatively. Foreign direct investment (as % of GDP) has also fallen off a cliff edge. Given the neoliberal context of globalised/financialised capital, these things are completely unsurprising when a polity withdraws from a trading bloc.

The getting back of control under Brexit always was a complete myth.

 

[bimble]

Can't believe there's no longer a Ministry For Brexit Opportunities, that didn't last long, they must have closed up shop because they'd already found all of them the opportunities.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Not sure what you mean by low levels of balance of payments but, since leaving the supra state's single market, all of the metrics for the UK's BoP have deteriorated negatively. Foreign direct investment (as % of GDP) has also fallen off a cliff edge. Given the neoliberal context of globalised/financialised capital, these things are completely unsurprising when a polity withdraws from a trading bloc.

The getting back of control under Brexit always was a complete myth.

What I mean by balance of payments is the increase of imports and relative decline of exports. The balance of payments was once the key metric by which the health or otherwise of the UK economy was measured (instead of inflation, the control of which was the metric prioritized by the Thatcherites). It has, as you suggest, sharply declined post Brexit and that this was predictable in the short term.

But, the reasons for its decline are longer run (as you well know) and the prioritization of a national economy ('taking back control' as you put it): a central industrial strategy, strategic direction of the economy via a national investment bank and a programme of insourcing, re-nationalization, infrastructure and housing spending and a balanced economy would all help address those reasons.

In terms of the EU trading bloc a serious government committed to serious negotiation with the EU (as opposed to the abysmal approach of Johnson) should be able to come up with an adult set of arrangements.

 

[RD2003]

This is interesting from John Gray, whatever anybody may think of the article as a whole. on which the emphasis is the instabilty of contemporay world (something the radical left would once have welcomed as an opportunity.) The revenge of the technocrats

What the Tories get wrong about Brexit

Insofar as Brexit’s a Tory project, it is: Global Britain, supply-side reforms, free market, open the British economy even more to the buffeting of the world. Whereas what people wanted in the North and the Midlands, and other parts of the country, from Brexit, I think, was some shelter from those storms. They wanted not a smaller state, a state that had retreated even further. They wanted actually, maybe not a bigger state, although most of them I think probably did, but one which was more protective of them and more concerned with their wellbeing and more active. So the majority of those who voted for Brexit did not vote — perhaps the overwhelming majority — for the reasons that the Tory Brexiteers thought. And that, of course, introduced a contradiction in the whole Tory Brexit project, which meant it couldn’t work.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is interesting from John Gray, whatever anybody may think of the article as a whole. on which the emphasis is the instabilty of contemporay world (something the radical left would once have welcomed as an opportunity.) The revenge of the technocrats

What the Tories get wrong about Brexit

Insofar as Brexit’s a Tory project, it is: Global Britain, supply-side reforms, free market, open the British economy even more to the buffeting of the world. Whereas what people wanted in the North and the Midlands, and other parts of the country, from Brexit, I think, was some shelter from those storms. They wanted not a smaller state, a state that had retreated even further. They wanted actually, maybe not a bigger state, although most of them I think probably did, but one which was more protective of them and more concerned with their wellbeing and more active. So the majority of those who voted for Brexit did not vote — perhaps the overwhelming majority — for the reasons that the Tory Brexiteers thought. And that, of course, introduced a contradiction in the whole Tory Brexit project, which meant it couldn’t work.

We've had the debate on here many times about the reasons as to why people voted to leave and the clear difference in motivations between those voting to leave in the deindustrialized towns and left behind coastal places and the Tories/neo-libs. All one big amorphous blob for the remainers of course, even though the evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[editor]

This is what the Brexiteers fought for!

No more right to paid holiday. Goodbye TUPE. Farewell limits on working hours. This article takes a first look at the government’s Brexit Freedoms Bill and the potentially major implications for UK employment law.

What might the Brexit Freedoms Bill mean for employment law

No more right to paid holiday. Goodbye TUPE. Farewell limits on working hours. This article takes a first look at the government’s Brexit Freedoms Bill and the potentially major implications for UK employment law.

www.lewissilkin.com

 

[contadino]

We've had the debate on here many times about the reasons as to why people voted to leave and the clear difference in motivations between those voting to leave in the deindustrialized towns and left behind coastal places and the Tories/neo-libs. All one big amorphous blob for the remainers of course, even though the evidence suggests otherwise.

I like the way you've lumped 'the remainers' into one amorphous blob, yet imply that you're somehow above that.

 

[Pickman's model]

I like the way you've lumped 'the remainers' into one amorphous blob, yet imply that you're somehow above that.

if you look again at what he wrote, and this time read it, you 'll find you're wrong

 

[contadino]

if you look again at what he wrote, and this time read it, you 'll find you're wrong

No, "the remainers" is the phrase used. To paraphrase...all remainers are unable to separate the motivation of all leavers. If you look again at what was written, you'll see the hypocrisy.

 

[brogdale]

What I mean by balance of payments is the increase of imports and relative decline of exports. The balance of payments was once the key metric by which the health or otherwise of the UK economy was measured (instead of inflation, the control of which was the metric prioritized by the Thatcherites). It has, as you suggest, sharply declined post Brexit and that this was predictable in the short term.

But, the reasons for its decline are longer run (as you well know) and the prioritization of a national economy ('taking back control' as you put it): a central industrial strategy, strategic direction of the economy via a national investment bank and a programme of insourcing, re-nationalization, infrastructure and housing spending and a balanced economy would all help address those reasons.

In terms of the EU trading bloc a serious government committed to serious negotiation with the EU (as opposed to the abysmal approach of Johnson) should be able to come up with an adult set of arrangements.

Yes, but gone are the days when national governments represent the interests of national capital; they don't care where their returns come from spatially. Even if the UK or rump UK were ever to elect a democratic socialist government, rather than the varieties of neoliberalism we have, "the markets" wouldn't realistically allow the realisation of any of these social democratic goals as they would threaten rates of return and represent a brake on neoliberal progress. It really doesn't matter whether the UK state is a member of the EU or not.

 

[brogdale]

This is what the Brexiteers fought for!

What might the Brexit Freedoms Bill mean for employment law

No more right to paid holiday. Goodbye TUPE. Farewell limits on working hours. This article takes a first look at the government’s Brexit Freedoms Bill and the potentially major implications for UK employment law.

www.lewissilkin.com

Precisely what the organised campaign groups were fighting for; probably not what many leave voters were voting for.

e2a ...or thought they were

 

[Pickman's model]

.cba.

 

[Yossarian]

No he doesn't. He says that the development of, focus on and prioritization of the building of a national economy after the war led to relatively rapid self sufficiency in food (bar non-indigenous foods) and that this was reversed by Thatcherite policies that use the state to defeat, demolish and sell off the key sections of the national economy. He doesn't say - but should after showing what a pro-EU figure Thatcher was initially- that the CAP played a key role in this in respect of food self sufficiency.

Yeah, I see he argues that while food self-sufficiency peaked under Thatcher, it was due to long-term postwar policies that she soon reversed.

I will definitely be reading more of Edgerton, rarely have I seen anybody criticise Brexit so eloquently.


The other aspect is that the politics of the Brexiteers themselves aren’t the politics of Brexit voters. The Brexit vote is an old vote, just like the Conservative vote. One has to credit the Conservatives with realizing that their vote was an old one and doing everything they could to sustain that vote — for example, by keeping NHS spending and pension spending up, systematically targeting welfare at the elderly and taking it away from the young.

But many of those old people were in effect “Lexiter” protest voters — people who wanted national industry back and perhaps national agriculture as well. They were expressing an entirely legitimate disapproval of where the economy had been going for the last forty years. But instead of voting out the powers that be in London, they were convinced that they had to vote out the powers that be in Brussels. I think that they made, from their point of view, an appalling mistake, and that’s going to add to what I think will be a most incendiary time in British politics.

Brexit and Boris Johnson Are the Legacies of Tony Blair

Tony Blair and New Labour consolidated the economic policies of Thatcherism and fostered a deep cynicism about politics through their lies about Iraq. The crisis of the last decade and its potentially ruinous consequences are their legacy to modern Britain.

jacobin.com

 

[The39thStep]

Didn't anyone from here go to last week's march and rally?

 

[Pickman's model]

Didn't anyone from here go to last week's march and rally?

i was working last weekend

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yeah, I see he argues that while food self-sufficiency peaked under Thatcher, it was due to long-term postwar policies that she soon reversed.

I will definitely be reading more of Edgerton, rarely have I seen anybody criticise Brexit so eloquently.


The other aspect is that the politics of the Brexiteers themselves aren’t the politics of Brexit voters. The Brexit vote is an old vote, just like the Conservative vote. One has to credit the Conservatives with realizing that their vote was an old one and doing everything they could to sustain that vote — for example, by keeping NHS spending and pension spending up, systematically targeting welfare at the elderly and taking it away from the young.

But many of those old people were in effect “Lexiter” protest voters — people who wanted national industry back and perhaps national agriculture as well. They were expressing an entirely legitimate disapproval of where the economy had been going for the last forty years. But instead of voting out the powers that be in London, they were convinced that they had to vote out the powers that be in Brussels. I think that they made, from their point of view, an appalling mistake, and that’s going to add to what I think will be a most incendiary time in British politics.

Brexit and Boris Johnson Are the Legacies of Tony Blair

Tony Blair and New Labour consolidated the economic policies of Thatcherism and fostered a deep cynicism about politics through their lies about Iraq. The crisis of the last decade and its potentially ruinous consequences are their legacy to modern Britain.

jacobin.com

Sadly, for you, you’ve already quoted most of his frothing about Brexit. The book, conversely, is excellent and a compelling account.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Didn't anyone from here go to last week's march and rally?

What happens on planet remain stays on planet remain clearly

 

[Pickman's model]

What happens on planet remain stays on planet remain clearly

tbh remainers would put pretty much anyone off wanting to campaign for the uk to re-enter the european union

 

[Yossarian]

Sadly, for you, you’ve already quoted most of his frothing about Brexit. The book, conversely, is excellent and a compelling account.

I guess he has a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on, veering from excellent authority to frothing loon depending on whether you agree with what he says.

 

[bimble]

I guess he has a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on, veering from excellent authority to frothing loon depending on whether you agree with what he says.

The bit you quoted says that people who voted leave for perfectly lexity reasons “made an appealing mistake”.
That’s got to be dismissed out of hand here, no matter who says it.

 

[Karl Masks]

The bit you quoted says that people who voted leave for perfectly lexity reasons “made an appealing mistake”.
That’s got to be dismissed out of hand here, no matter who says it.

why? They did, it was

 

[Smokeandsteam]

We

I guess he has a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on, veering from excellent authority to frothing loon depending on whether you agree with what he says.

Correct

 

[The39thStep]

why? They did, it was

What was so appealing in your view about this mistake ?

 

[Raheem]

What was so appealing in your view about this mistake ?

Come on, it was quite obviously an autocorrect error and should have read "appealing pisstake".

 

[The39thStep]

Come on, it was quite obviously an autocorrect error and should have read "appealing pisstake".

Would fit in with the thread

 

[stethoscope]

But many of those old people were in effect “Lexiter” protest voters — people who wanted national industry back and perhaps national agriculture as well. They were expressing an entirely legitimate disapproval of where the economy had been going for the last forty years. But instead of voting out the powers that be in London, they were convinced that they had to vote out the powers that be in Brussels. I think that they made, from their point of view, an appalling mistake, and that’s going to add to what I think will be a most incendiary time in British politics.

FWIW, thats not really my left-leave position. Very simply in my view, if you oppose capitalism and neoliberalism, as a libertarian communist, it means opposing all structures that support that - both state (UK government) and superstate (EU).

I'd also argue that most left leavers I've met very actively oppose the Tories in government (and indeed centrist/right Labour) AND EU. If anything, the liberal mass of 'FBPE's including some on the left are the ones that are now pre-occupied on rejoining the EU as the 'solution' rather than actually fighting on pro-working class, socialist grounds.

 

[brogdale]

FWIW, thats not really my left-leave position. Very simply in my view, if you oppose capitalism and neoliberalism, as a libertarian communist, it means opposing all stuctures that support that - both state (UK government) and superstate (EU).

I'd also argue that most left leavers I've met very actively oppose the Tories and government AND EU. If anything, the liberal mass of 'FBPE's including some on the left are the ones that are now pre-occupied on rejoining the EU as the 'solution' rather than actually fighting on pro-working class, socialist grounds.

.

 

[inva]

FWIW, thats not really my left-leave position. Very simply in my view, if you oppose capitalism and neoliberalism, as a libertarian communist, it means opposing all structures that support that - both state (UK government) and superstate (EU).

I'd also argue that most left leavers I've met very actively oppose the Tories in government (and indeed centrist/right Labour) AND EU. If anything, the liberal mass of 'FBPE's including some on the left are the ones that are now pre-occupied on rejoining the EU as the 'solution' rather than actually fighting on pro-working class, socialist grounds.

It's a muddled paragraph all round tbh, would be mildly interested to know how he squares seemingly thinking leave voters are right to want nationalised industries and to reject the trajectory of the last 40 years with thinking they're wrong to oppose an obstacle to nationalised industries and a key structure through which the current trajectory has been organised and enforced. Or maybe he's one of those reform people who are surely the most bonkers of us all

 

[Karl Masks]

What was so appealing in your view about this mistake ?

Not sure I follow. I'm simply saying that voting leave was a mistake

 

[The39thStep]

Not sure I follow. I'm simply saying that voting leave was a mistake

It was a typo mistake that read appealing rather than appalling. However whilst you have popped in are you a rejoiner?