A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
what sentiment do you disagree with btw
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Long read on the real economic costs of Brexit in today's FT. The political mood of the country is sumamrised: "British politicians — and the wider country — are still traumatised by the bitter Brexit saga, and deeply unwilling to revisit it". Interesting that it points out that Shur Kieth is just as fucked by any re-opening of the Brexit debate as the Tories.
worth a look- The Deafening Silence over Brexit's economic fallout
worth a look- The Deafening Silence over Brexit's economic fallout
ska invita
back on the other side
summary
lowest growth in the G20, apart from sanctioned Russia.
Brexit would ultimately reduce productivity and UK gross domestic product by 4 per cent compared with a world where the country remained inside the EU. It says that a little over half of that damage has yet to occur.
That level of decline, worth about £100bn a year in lost output, would result in lost revenues for the Treasury of roughly £40bn a year. That is £40bn that might have been available to the beleaguered Johnson for the radical tax cuts demanded by the Tory right — the equivalent of 6p off the 20p in the pound basic rate of income tax.
The first and most obvious economic blow delivered by Brexit came when sterling fell almost 10 per cent after the referendum in June 2016, against currencies that match the UK’s pattern of imports. It did not recover. This sharp depreciation was not followed by a boom in exports as UK goods and services became cheaper on global markets, but it did raise the price of imports and pushed up inflation.
By June 2018, a team of academic economists at the Centre for Economic Policy Research calculated that there had been a Brexit inflation effect, raising consumer prices by 2.9 per cent, with no corresponding increase in wages.
results have been increasingly ugly, especially for small companies trading with Europe. Red tape caused a “steep decline” in the number of trading relationships after January 2021, according to a study by the Centre for Economic Performance at the London School of Economics. The number of buyer-seller relationships fell by almost one-third, it found.
The same group found food prices had risen as a result of Brexit. Comparing the prices of imported food such as pork, tomatoes and jam, which predominantly came from the EU, with those that came from further afield such as tuna and pineapples, it found a substantial Brexit effect. “Brexit increased average food prices by about 6 per cent over 2020 and 2021,” according to the research.
“everybody else sees a recovery in trade following Covid and the UK sits flat”.
In the first quarter of 2022, real business investment was 9.4 per cent lower than in the second quarter of 2016. That fall was mostly due to Covid, but it had flatlined since the referendum, ending a period of growth since 2010 and falling well short of the performance of other G7 countries. ..... negative perceptions of the UK have continued among business with the chancellor finding he had little bang for his £25bn buck of super deductions in corporation tax to encourage capital spending.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh it's a tribute to the country's resilience that despite a dozen years of tory misrule, and six years of shit since the referendum, things are flatlining rather than going into freefall
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ska invita
back on the other side
ive never seen anyone get a luggage search in Nothing To Declare - or even any staff there - If I were smuggling something id recommend to go through nothing to declare <Top Tip
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i've had a search in nothing to declare. one of the hazards of travelling while a teenager.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Behind a paywall when I try to access it.
Lurdan
old wave
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
You do in Lahore. If Pakistan joined the EU that queue would vanish, for sure. Would probably solve the agg between there and India, seeing as the EU has brought peace to Europe since the 1940’s. Apart from that genocide in the 1990’s. And the current shit, of course.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Brexit: The UK area that will see the biggest drop in wages
Leaving the trading bloc has reduced how open and competitive Britain’s economy is, researchers have found.
Anju
Well-Known Member
Nothing to worry about though as they're going to remove restrictions on executives renumeration so it will even out as ordinary people can just get a second or third job working for one of the newly lured businesses.
Brexit: The UK area that will see the biggest drop in wages
Leaving the trading bloc has reduced how open and competitive Britain’s economy is, researchers have found.uk.news.yahoo.com
UK Weighs Dropping Curbs on Executive Pay to Lure Firms
The UK government is studying plans to relax restrictions on executives’ remuneration to make the City of London more appealing to businesses post-Brexit.
www.bloomberg.com
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Six years ago the UK voted to leave the EU. Brexit remains ‘open wound’ for EU citizens living in UK
I decided to apply for British citizenship, not because I wanted to be British, but so I could sleep at night again. When I got my British passport, I spat on it.”
I decided to apply for British citizenship, not because I wanted to be British, but so I could sleep at night again. When I got my British passport, I spat on it.”
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Ah, it's independence day, is it?
philosophical
Well-Known Member
The vote was to leave.
Whatever motivated diverse people to vote was compressed into a binary choice, leave or remain.
Leave means having a different system between two entities with a line of demarcation in between.
One part of that line is a land border which right now is fully open.
Whatever is called Brexit is not the same as leave.
Leavers who go on about the democratic will of the people have yet to experience it, there is a ‘democratic deficit’ that loads voting leave fail to acknowledge.
Whatever motivated diverse people to vote was compressed into a binary choice, leave or remain.
Leave means having a different system between two entities with a line of demarcation in between.
One part of that line is a land border which right now is fully open.
Whatever is called Brexit is not the same as leave.
Leavers who go on about the democratic will of the people have yet to experience it, there is a ‘democratic deficit’ that loads voting leave fail to acknowledge.
bimble
floofy
This is what The Ministry For Brexit Opportunities has been up to they made this website:
https://public.tableau.com/app/prof.../UKGovernment-RetainedEULawDashboard/Guidance which Rees-Mogg proudly announced yesterday.
Its got all the retained EU laws listed on it and the very serious idea is that the great british public will be able to write to Jacob to tell him which ones they want rid of, and we will get to "count down" as they're removed 1 by 1.
Same as all of it, since back before the referendum, this isn't about laws at all its just another pathetic stunt hoping to stir up the same old divisions which they know are their best & only chance of clinging to power.
Here he is talking about it in HOC, just reminding everyone he still hasn't got any idea what the benefits might be that he's supposed to be ministering.
What a massive waste of time & resources would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
https://public.tableau.com/app/prof.../UKGovernment-RetainedEULawDashboard/Guidance which Rees-Mogg proudly announced yesterday.
Its got all the retained EU laws listed on it and the very serious idea is that the great british public will be able to write to Jacob to tell him which ones they want rid of, and we will get to "count down" as they're removed 1 by 1.
Same as all of it, since back before the referendum, this isn't about laws at all its just another pathetic stunt hoping to stir up the same old divisions which they know are their best & only chance of clinging to power.
Here he is talking about it in HOC, just reminding everyone he still hasn't got any idea what the benefits might be that he's supposed to be ministering.
What a massive waste of time & resources would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's the best way to get the blue to shine
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Yes but what do you think about the Ireland question? You always seem to ignore that.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think we should be tolled
Raheem
Well-Known Member
"I'm never eating here again! I hope you're not expecting a tip!"
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I've now had the chance to read this. I have also read some of the other articles posted up here subsequently. The FT piece isn't bad. It is quite correct to suggest that Johnson and Starmer, and the parties that they lead, do not have an idea, or a convincing vision, of the type of economic landscape that needs to be adopted post-Brexit and that large swathes of Britian's political and narrating class is currently paralyzed as a result: rabbits in the economic headlights. The article doesn't say, but should, that one effect of this is that they do not have a serious approach to dealing with the current crisis either, caused by rising prices and inflation caused by excessive corporate profit and the historically unprecedented transfer of wealth from us to the 1%. A process which frankly dwarves the sum of £40bn discussed by the FT in its article.
The article also, conveniently, overlooks 40 years of economic activity and policy making in the UK - whilst it was part of the EU economic arrangements - that perhaps better suggests why the UK economy is tanking and why wages are falling. Low levels of investment, poor productivity, a lack of international competitiveness and exports failing to keep up with imports are not problems that have arisen in the last 5 years. They have been gradually embedding facts and deformities of the British economy since 1973. The manufactured goods base in the accounts for less than 10% of the economy: the smallest in the G7 and across much of Europe. Almost everything that we buy – TVs, washing machines, mobile phones – is imported (and imported from outside of the EU) and has been for decades. Britain has not had a trade surplus for almost 50 years and our trade deficit has grown each year (arguably the decline has been sped up since the pandemic and Brexit but the underlying trend is much longer run). So, when economists say that the British economy is performing worse than the EU (which is true, but is merely comparing two dreadful economic forecasts) they are correct but conveniently overlook the structural economic reasons.
The reality is that in or out of the EU the grim spectre of the Thatcherite market economy on the British economy and its operation for the last 40 plus years has led to decades of falling wages, a historic rise in the gini coefficient that measures inequality, a collapse in the ability of ordinary people to build decent lives and an economy floating on a sea of debt, credit and property speculation. Money is used to buy money. It is not invested, it is accumulated and retained.
What would be a disaster for the left, compounding other disasters, would be to now swim along with liberalism in assuming that the answer and the necessary debate about these systemic problems is best done through the prism of the EU. What is needed instead is a vision for what a better economy: based on economic justice, collective bargaining and a generational shift in money and wealth away from the 1% and back towards the rest of us: and to consider how that might be achieved post Brexit. Neither the EU or the existing order in the UK offers anything like this.
As we are on the Brexit thread I will say again that its real tragedy was the defeat of a disorientated Labour leadership and a manifesto that at least pointed in that direction, and would in a post Brexit economy have taken a small but seismically important step away from the path we've been on since 1973. As for those who say an alternative vision is too ambitious and can't be done I'd point out that the left used to possess such ambition and ideas and went out and argued for them and stood by them:. In fact, in 1973 the Labour Party's Alterative Economic Strategy set out an economic plan - also ground in an anguished debate about the EU - based on a political understanding of economic policy as class struggle and aimed to impose greater working class political control on each of the forms of capital and approach that in 2022 is essential to unpick the damage of the last 50 years. Perhaps, the need - and the method of achieving it - for a similar strategy is a more pressing question than which form of neo-liberal economic arrangements is the least worst?
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philosophical
Well-Known Member
Ideally Ireland would be one single country administered from Dublin, but as part of a pan European system that also includes Wales, Scotland, England and countries in mainland Europe. Given the climate crisis that has to be faced, I would also like to see a decent pan global system of some benevolent kind.
As far as the vote to leave is concerned what I want wasn't an option.
Leave has not been implemented as voted for.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Although Wales and England voted for Brexit. And I'm not sure you can blame brexit voters for leave not being implemented as voted for. I'm sure we'd be nearly as much in the shit if we'd stayed in Europe. I didn't vote because whichever side won, the tories were going to be in power. If we'd stayed in Europe I'm sure Johnson would have fucked that up, too, perhaps for example by cutting the NHS budget by an extra £350 million a week.
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