A thank you to Brexiteers.

[andysays]

Funny how there's been a massive increase in 'shit business practices' recently.

The shit business practices have been around for a while, it's just the combination of Brexit, Covid and other factors which have made them apparent to those who weren't paying attention before and didn't really care as long as they could get their milkshake or subway easily and cheaply.

 

[Yossarian]

Funny how there's been a massive increase in 'shit business practices' recently.

 

[The39thStep]

The 'British Food' shelves at a French supermarket

View attachment 285578

Thats terrible, how will the French cope without our wine, cheese and tiger loaves?

 

[Badgers]

Glad to see you're keeping to your normal high standards of debate

No point in debating anything with Brexiteers.

 

[The39thStep]

No point in debating anything with Brexiteers.

Come on, you and me do ok.

 

[Pickman's model]

No point in debating anything with Brexiteers.

There's no actual point to so much of what we do here

If we started worrying about the point of what we do urban would collapse quicker than the Afghan government

 

[two sheds]

Leaving armaments and personal details all over the place

 

[Pickman's model]

Leaving armaments and personal details all over the place

The government would get a roasting if this ever comes to court over flagrant breaches of data protection. Much good it'll do those slain by the Taliban

 

[Pickman's model]

No point in debating anything with Brexiteers.

Is it a full English brexit or not?

 

[Yossarian]

No point in debating anything with Brexiteers.

The referendum was more than 5 years ago, what does "Brexiteer" even mean now - somebody who voted for Brexit?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and fully supports how the Johnson government has handled it?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and thinks it has been mishandled but will eventually work out?

Somebody who has identified as a Brexiteer so strongly that they interpret criticism of any aspect of Brexit as a personal attack?

 

[Pickman's model]

What does "Brexiteer" even mean now - somebody who voted for Brexit?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and fully supports how the Johnson government has handled it?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and thinks it has been mishandled but will eventually work out?

Somebody who has identified as a Brexiteer so strongly that they interpret criticism of any aspect of Brexit as a personal attack?

Or any or all of the above

 

[Badgers]

What does "Brexiteer" even mean now - somebody who voted for Brexit?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and fully supports how the Johnson government has handled it?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and thinks it has been mishandled but will eventually work out?

Somebody who has identified as a Brexiteer so strongly that they interpret criticism of any aspect of Brexit as a personal attack?

All the above

 

[andysays]

All the above

All of the above, or any of the above?

I'm numbers 1 and possibly 3 on Yossarian's list, providing I can amend "will work out" to "might work out, especially if people can focus on who the real enemy is, rather than making shit comments about the side of buses".

 

[bimble]

All of the above, or any of the above?

I'm numbers 1 and possibly 3 on Yossarian's list, providing I can amend "will work out" to "might work out, especially if people can focus on who the real enemy is, rather than making shit comments about the side of buses".

Who is to blame for the 70,000 excess pigs? I think it’s not the farmers or the meat processing factory owners but basically the whole economic system that’s evolved over a long time making almost everybody expect their food to be cheap. That’s more complicated than just blaming the supermarkets for being greedy and mean imo.
And I can’t see how it might change unless there’s some sort of transformation making Uk more like Switzerland (a little bubble of high pay high prices & protectionism). So brexit means we will just import more and make less food.

 

[The39thStep]

First, they came for the supermarkets........

 

[bimble]

First, they came for the supermarkets........

That’s it that’s your response - If the supermarkets all just stopped being big meanies then British food production would be fine so let’s blame the supermarkets? Ok.

 

[andysays]

Who is to blame for the 70,000 excess pigs? I think it’s not the farmers or the meat processing factory owners but basically the whole economic system that’s evolved over a long time making almost everybody expect their food to be cheap. That’s more complicated than just blaming the supermarkets for being greedy and mean imo.
And I can’t see how it might change unless there’s some sort of transformation making Uk more like Switzerland (a little bubble of high pay high prices & protectionism). So brexit means we will just import more and make less food.

I'm not blaming individual farmers or meat processing factory owners. It's part of the capitalist economic system that once some businesses have started with shitty practices, the others also have to, in order to remain competitive within the logic of the system.

But a crucial part of the cheap food system we've all mostly come to take for granted (at least as consumers, though maybe not if our jobs and livelihoods depend on it) is the reliance on cheap labour, often from poorer EU countries.

Now that the double whammy of Brexit and Covid has significantly reduced the amount of cheap labour, things will have to change, and that change will almost inevitably include higher food prices.

I don't think that higher food prices are necessarily a bad thing, it depends on a whole variety of other factors, most critically on whether workers within the food production and distribution industries are able to use their potentially increased bargaining power to get better pay and conditions.

 

[Supine]

First, they came for the supermarkets........

And now my pub is shut because of staff shortages

 

[Yossarian]

That’s it that’s your response - If the supermarkets all just stopped being big meanies then British food production would be fine so let’s blame the supermarkets? Ok.

"Why not just avoid the supermarket and go to your local Portuguese grocer like I do?"

 

[bimble]

I’m happy to play at let’s attack each other in a friendly way for fun over brexit but am genuinely sad about this, the whole food production thing.

andysays why do you think it will be higher prices for the same British produce rather than less British produce existing & importing more (cheap) food from countries than continue to employ workers who will work for less?

eg) our trade deal with New Zealand is almost done apparently, & expected to include lifting all tariffs & quotas on importing their meat, gradually over a few years.

 

[two sheds]

double whammy

 

[andysays]

I’m happy to play at let’s attack each other in a friendly way for fun over brexit but am genuinely sad about this, the whole food production thing.

andysays why do you think it will be higher prices for the same British produce rather than less British produce existing & importing more (cheap) food from countries than continue to employ workers who will work for less?

I haven't said it will be one rather than another.

I would guess (and it is just a guess) that if it really is impossible for so much eg pig meat products to be produced in Britain there might be a short term increase in the amount imported from elsewhere. But those increased imports are likely to come at extra cost anyway, because foreign producers can't just magically come up with extra bacon to export Britain.

But in the longer term, I think many/most current British producers will recognise that if they want to stay in business, they have to take account of the new reality and not be quite so reliant on cheap labour, whether from the EU or domestically.

 

[Yossarian]

Brexiteers: "Brexit won because middle-class people simply don't understand the concerns of working class people."

Also Brexiteers: "What's the problem with higher food prices?"

 

[Supine]

Higher food prices that disproportionately impact the poor. Leading to inflation that impacts everyone. With more job losses adding to the pain.

 

[bimble]

I haven't said it will be one rather than another.

I would guess (and it is just a guess) that if it really is impossible for so much eg pig meat products to be produced in Britain there might be a short term increase in the amount imported from elsewhere. But those increased imports are likely to come at extra cost anyway, because foreign producers can't just magically come up with extra bacon to export Britain.

But in the longer term, I think many/most current British producers will recognise that if they want to stay in business, they have to take account of the new reality and not be quite so reliant on cheap labour, whether from the EU or domestically.

Agreed, but then, in time, it’ll be up to the supermarkets to choose to buy & stock the more expensive British stuff (pigs berries whatever) rather than the cheaper stuff from elsewhere? Maybe the additional costs of importing will make this not that big a difference as you say.

 

[editor]

Not sure I'd trust a company who patronisingly call their staff Sandwich Artists to tell me anything, but some people just seem to lap up that "companies blaming stuff other than their shit business practices for their failings", as this thread continues to demonstrate.

Your level of denial is hitting conspiraloon levels now.

All of the above, or any of the above?

I'm numbers 1 and possibly 3 on Yossarian's list, providing I can amend "will work out" to "might work out, especially if people can focus on who the real enemy is, rather than making shit comments about the side of buses".

You probably can't see it, but you're way more likely to register as a number four.

 

[MrSki]

The referendum was more than 5 years ago, what does "Brexiteer" even mean now - somebody who voted for Brexit?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and fully supports how the Johnson government has handled it?

Somebody who voted for Brexit and thinks it has been mishandled but will eventually work out?

Somebody who has identified as a Brexiteer so strongly that they interpret criticism of any aspect of Brexit as a personal attack?

Or someone who did not see anything wrong with a referendum that was found to be illegal & was funded by dodgy Russian & American cash that for some strange reason wanted to avoid billionaires paying tax & weaken the EU

You can tell I am not bitter.

Maybe a Brexiteer is someone who still thinks the shooting of yourself in the foot to spite your face was a good idea for working class people. Still I am sure one day someone will come up with a benefit. I suppose food shortages will help with the obesity problem.

 

[Supine]

I actually discovered a benefit!!!

The GDPR data changes stuff. Most of it will be damaging, a waste of time, or pointless. They are looking at removing those annoying popups about accepting cookies. At least for some websites. That’d be a brexit bonus

 

[MrSki]

I actually discovered a benefit!!!

The GDPR data changes stuff. Most of it will be damaging, a waste of time, or pointless. They are looking at removing those annoying popups about accepting cookies. At least for some websites. That’d be a brexit bonus

Yeah will be great when dodgy companies can sell their data on you to each other. A proper bonus. Good try though.

 

[two sheds]

I actually discovered a benefit!!!

The GDPR data changes stuff. Most of it will be damaging, a waste of time, or pointless. They are looking at removing those annoying popups about accepting cookies. At least for some websites. That’d be a brexit bonus

Firefox has an add on that just accepts them, with another add on that deletes cookies that try to follow you round