50% of tasmanians functionally illiterate

[Orang Utan]

The advantages of paper newspapers over electronic newspapers in public libraries.

1 It is easier to read a printed page than it is to read to read a screen.

2 There is empirical evidence that people retain more information after reading a paper document than they do after reading a document on screen.

3 You are not allowed to be on a library computer all day, whereas you can read a library newspaper all day.

4 You have to be registered with a library service to use the computers, so if you are visiting from another county/borough then you cannot pop into a library to use the computers.

5 Printed newspapers can be accessed as soon as you have one in your hand, whereas it takes some time to log on to the computer and access the online newspaper website.

6 Newspaper websites are often not simply electronic versions of the printed papers, and are harder to navigate than printed papers.

7 Accessing online newspapers may be subject to one of more of six types of failure that reading printed newspapers will not. a) The electricity supply can fail. b) The library service system can go down. c) The individual computer can have a software fault. d) The individual computer can have a hardware fault e) The newspaper website can go down. f) The internet can go down (this has happened).

But they are ephemeral and can’t be updated. There’s also very little demand for paper newspapers when the same information is available for free online, in the library itself. It’s no surprise many budget-squeezed public libraries have stopped providing them.

 

[Aladdin]

The advantages of paper newspapers over electronic newspapers in public libraries.

1 It is easier to read a printed page than it is to read to read a screen.

2 There is empirical evidence that people retain more information after reading a paper document than they do after reading a document on screen.

3 You are not allowed to be on a library computer all day, whereas you can read a library newspaper all day.

4 You have to be registered with a library service to use the computers, so if you are visiting from another county/borough then you cannot pop into a library to use the computers.

5 Printed newspapers can be accessed as soon as you have one in your hand, whereas it takes some time to log on to the computer and access the online newspaper website.

6 Newspaper websites are often not simply electronic versions of the printed papers, and are harder to navigate than printed papers.

7 Accessing online newspapers may be subject to one of more of six types of failure that reading printed newspapers will not. a) The electricity supply can fail. b) The library service system can go down. c) The individual computer can have a software fault. d) The individual computer can have a hardware fault e) The newspaper website can go down. f) The internet can go down (this has happened).

I would add also that chips taste better off newspaper than an iPad.

 

[PTK]

But they are ephemeral and can’t be updated. There’s also very little demand for paper newspapers when the same information is available for free online, in the library itself. It’s no surprise many budget-squeezed public libraries have stopped providing them.

That newspapers cannot be updated is a good thing. They are solid proof of what some people thought about events in the world at a particular time. Digital records can be altered. We would have no proof that we were once allied to Eurasia, and at war with Eastasia. We would have no need for a Winston Smith to physically burn the newspapers of yesterday.

Without paper documents, there can be no scrap books.

 

[frogwoman]

But they're not available for free? A lot of newspapers are behind paywall and, especially on local papers the sites are pretty unusable. Most newspapers will ask you to pay something these days to access their website apart from the Guardian and a few others, whereas in a library you can read it all day. Of course I understand why libraries are making those choices about finances etc, but I don't see it as a good thing that it is happening.

Related to the problems about updates etc there is a real issue with 'digital decay' as well

 

[PTK]

Some years ago the local library got rid of nearly all the magazines that once it stocked. The library service employed a private company to provide online access to magazines. If you were registered with the library, and could find a free computer, then you could type in your library card number and password and log on, then access this company's website, type in your number and password, log on, and read many magazines. For an hour. For that was the total amount of time that you were allowed on the computer every day.

The library had once stocked The Scientific American. I went online, hoping to read it. This was not one of the titles that the company provided. I complained, and was told that this particular magazine was not one of the ones they provided. I knew that already. There was no proper explanation of why it was not available.I was very hard up at the time, and said magazine is quite expensive.

The library still does not stock magazines, but I think it is the case that the online magazines are no longer available.

Historians of the future will find a paucity of records from the time in which we live. The wonderful digital information on the web will no longer be available when the servers cease working. The physical backups will no longer be readable. For those who doubt that last point, I have three words “twelve inch floppy”. How many of us could access information stored on a twelve inch floppy disk?


Welcome to the new Dark Ages.

 

[tim]

But they are ephemeral and can’t be updated. There’s also very little demand for paper newspapers when the same information is available for free online, in the library itself. It’s no surprise many budget-squeezed public libraries have stopped providing them.

They're updated daily, which is often enough.

 

[emanymton]

But they're not available for free? A lot of newspapers are behind paywall and, especially on local papers the sites are pretty unusable. Most newspapers will ask you to pay something these days to access their website apart from the Guardian and a few others, whereas in a library you can read it all day. Of course I understand why libraries are making those choices about finances etc, but I don't see it as a good thing that it is happening.

Related to the problems about updates etc there is a real issue with 'digital decay' as well

I assume the library service allows access to paywalled content, the problem are the ones unreadable due to adds as I can't see them using anad blocker.

 

[BigMoaner]

its interesting to think about what is seen as positive and progress. there's assumptions at play: instant access, instant updates, endless choice, collapses of "legacy media", etc are all good things that benefit humanity. Are they? No idea, tbh, it's too vast and complex an issue to think through coherently but worth asking all the same.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Where did you read that?

Nicholas Carr The Shallows has references

 

[WouldBe]

I would add also that chips taste better off newspaper than an iPad.

Not easy to light your wood burner with an iPad either.

 

[tim]

Not easy to light your wood burner with an iPad either.

You can import ones from Beirut that'll do that trick.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Some years ago the local library got rid of nearly all the magazines that once it stocked. The library service employed a private company to provide online access to magazines. If you were registered with the library, and could find a free computer, then you could type in your library card number and password and log on, then access this company's website, type in your number and password, log on, and read many magazines. For an hour. For that was the total amount of time that you were allowed on the computer every day.

The library had once stocked The Scientific American. I went online, hoping to read it. This was not one of the titles that the company provided. I complained, and was told that this particular magazine was not one of the ones they provided. I knew that already. There was no proper explanation of why it was not available.I was very hard up at the time, and said magazine is quite expensive.

The library still does not stock magazines, but I think it is the case that the online magazines are no longer available.

Historians of the future will find a paucity of records from the time in which we live. The wonderful digital information on the web will no longer be available when the servers cease working. The physical backups will no longer be readable. For those who doubt that last point, I have three words “twelve inch floppy”. How many of us could access information stored on a twelve inch floppy disk?


Welcome to the new Dark Ages.

There are similar problems with print editions. We have ongoing supplier issues for magazines at my library and we're still using paper editions for some things. We haven't had a copy of the Wall Street Journal for the last six months. We're switching suppliers, but we have to wait until the current contract runs out. Meanwhile, I have a patron that comes in every month and screams at me because we still don't have the WSJ.

For computer access, we have two options. You can log in with your library card or you can log in with a guest pass. Most of the libraries I know have this as an option. If you need more than an hour, I have a utility that can extend the time (or blow you off the computer completely).

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

its interesting to think about what is seen as positive and progress. there's assumptions at play: instant access, instant updates, endless choice, collapses of "legacy media", etc are all good things that benefit humanity. Are they? No idea, tbh, it's too vast and complex an issue to think through coherently but worth asking all the same.

Information overload is a real thing. How can you make coherent decisions when you have so much information at hand that there's no way to understand it all? Add to that, all of the bad actors intent on obscuring "facts" in their favor, and you get things like Donald Trump. You don't have to censor information, you only have to create a fog around what's true and what's not.

 

[BigMoaner]

Information overload is a real thing. How can you make coherent decisions when you have so much information at hand that there's no way to understand it all? Add to that, all of the bad actors intent on obscuring "facts" in their favor, and you get things like Donald Trump. You don't have to censor information, you only have to create a fog around what's true and what's not.

and, also, if you have no time to think about it either...deep thinking requires a huge amount of time and space. something which the psyche has less and less of.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Saw that in this guardian article. Libraries will only exist for as long as we borrow from them. Consider it your civic duty | Jodi Wilson thought it must be bollocks. But it's true https://www.news.com.au/national/br...y/news-story/687c3b7483c49f8243c323b6f4e6bcc5

I've been seeing articles for a long time predicting the demise of libraries. There does seem to be a growing segment of the population that doesn't see the point. Many libraries are being asked to do more with less money. Almost all library jobs now are being reduced to part-time, no benefit jobs. I've seen library directors do some really awful things to reduce the number of full-time employees, so they can replace them with part-timers. Meanwhile, if you walk into most libraries, they're full of people. Often, that's the only computer access some people have and you really can't get along in life without computer access.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

and, also, if you have no time to think about it either...deep thinking requires a huge amount of time and space. something which the psyche has less and less of.

That's partly why the upper class has tried so hard to gut the middle class and cut overtime and vacation pay, etc. If they can keep you working 80 hours a week just to survive, you won't have time to revolt.

 

[BigMoaner]

That's partly why the upper class has tried so hard to gut the middle class and cut overtime and vacation pay, etc. If they can keep you working 80 hours a week just to survive, you won't have time to revolt.

The exploitation is self-exploitation, too - "achievement". I must achieve X, Y and Z. You can't really have a master slave dialectic in these cuddly feely-appearing times - so that dynamic now is internalised. If I am not constantly reaching for goals I am somehow lacking, failing. Achievement of course is fine in and of itself but when it becomes a kind of panicky terrified part of the psyche, then that's another. And that sense of "achievement" in the modern self is not just with material things like job progression and monetary wealth, but achievement in things like relationships, health, sex, hobbies, dating. hence the billions and billions spent on self help and gym memberships and yoga and gurus. a complete construction, though naturalised (it's "evolution", "inherent"). Cross and compare with previous generations/culture. the self on complete feedback loop with itself, revolt and and community barely touch it at all

 

[PTK]

Writing of the Scientific American, as I was earlier, it appears that my local branch of WH Smith does not know if or when it will receive the latest issue.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Writing of the Scientific American, as I was earlier, it appears that my local branch of WH Smith does not know if or when it will receive the latest issue.

I know you're not completely happy with digital, but they do have a website with lots of the articles posted. You can also sign up for their newsletter.

Scientific American

Scientific American is the essential guide to the most awe-inspiring advances in science and technology, explaining how they change our understanding of the world and shape our lives.

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[PTK]

I know you're not completely happy with digital, but they do have a website with lots of the articles posted. You can also sign up for their newsletter.

Scientific American

Scientific American is the essential guide to the most awe-inspiring advances in science and technology, explaining how they change our understanding of the world and shape our lives.

www.scientificamerican.com

Thanks. I do get emails from them.
It is amazing that, once upon a time, a branch of WH Smith could tell you if an issue of a magazine had arrived in their shop, or when it was likely to arrive. They cannot do so now. It seems that the customer is in a worse position than they would have been 50 years ago. Yet now they have automated stock-taking.