5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London
- Thread starter Utopia
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is. But then you have to ask what are the acceptable limits of behaviour. Is listening to the radio in a car such a safety issue that radios should be banned from cars? Perhaps. I'm not sure. Long car journeys are made more bearable by a radio.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbh, wrt safety, I think it is the distraction the headphones/radio provide that is the main issue. (Not that the idiot Johnson seems to realise this - or perhaps he does, and is such a cynical politician that he will happily use the issue as a distraction.)
And wrt cyclist deaths in London, this isn't the main issue at all, of course.
Last edited:
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Is listening to music while walking along enough to get you killed on the road as a pedestrian by stepping into the road while distracted by the music?
I have ear plug headphones that completely shield me from ambient noise playing music and I've never decided to walk into a road.
I have ear plug headphones that completely shield me from ambient noise playing music and I've never decided to walk into a road.
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
I'm not saying it's about banning stuff. It's about choosing to be safer.
The argument that cyclists can listen to headphones because drivers listen to the radio is a very odd one. I appreciate you're not making this argument, but it does appear to be hinted at on this thread, and has been elsewhere on the cycle commute thread, for example.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
As for human psychology often what actually happens is the opposite to what seems obvious.
In this case for example, I would have thought that boredom would be a big risk factor in driving. Therefore having the distraction of a radio as something to keep your mind occupied, would perhaps reduce boredom and help with your driving.
Either way, I think it's going to be hard to get solid evidence on the impact of headphones for cyclists or radio's for drivers. Probably because any impact is likely to be marginal. Partly for this reason I think Boris is way off the mark in going on about headphones as a response to this spate of cyclist deaths.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I dislike banning stuff except where there is compelling evidence that it is the right thing to do. In this case, banning HGVs from city centres during rush hours morning and evening is something for which there is very compelling evidence. Also, as a basic principle, the more dangerous the thing you do potentially is to other people (in this case, the heavier your vehicle), the more the onus should be on you to minimise that danger: by ensuring your vehicle has safety features, your driver is not overtired and is properly trained, and also that you keep off the roads when they are really busy with vulnerable users. On city roads, the HGV should be the bottom priority, only allowed to use the roads where they are of minimal menace to others. Cities are for living in. Deliveries need to be made, but they do not need to be made during peak times. People do need to get to/from work during peak times.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What gave you the idea that I was after an apology?
My posts on this thread are there for all to see. As are yours.
Utopia
"Jackanackanory"
Maybe you shouldn't have been undertaking a long vehicle on a roundabout next to a barrier with no escape route!
Anticipate the stupidity of the driver!
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
They may have been overtaken.
Utopia
"Jackanackanory"
If they were on a bike being overtaken by a bus on a roundabout then they should really work on their fitness levels
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Anticipating the stupidity of cyclists is pretty vital too, especially the ones with no lights going perpendicular to flowing traffic from between parked cars with their hoodie up. Fortunately that's not every day...
Utopia
"Jackanackanory"
As a cyclist i'd rather focus on cars/lorries/buses which if hit me will hurt much more that a fellow cyclist, thank you please.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Guess that explains them nearly hitting each other in that clip earlier.
Utopia
"Jackanackanory"
Ummmm that clip(post #431) showed a dopey cyclist trying to squeeze through a closing gap between the bus & the van & clipping the van & coming off.........did you watch the clip or did you just see the still image in the post?
I was waiting for a gap in the traffic with my foot on the kerb when a bus turning left cut very close to me. I'd only just moved into the area so was still unfamiliar with the best way to cross. Maybe I was in no danger and the bus driver knew exactly what angle to take and how close he could get but it scared the shit out of me. Those high granite kerbs don't help either.
Utopia
"Jackanackanory"
Ah I see...sorry for assuming you were undertaking, those x2 roundabouts at E&C are pretty intimidating to even experienced cyclists!
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Should probably have left it there. I guess bumping into so many other cyclists is bound to lead to accumulative brain injuries.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
I use to navigate them and they're not too bad if you take the lane. The Southern junction in particular is much improved. These days, I suffer the indignity of the blue paint and take the superhighway longcut aroudn the back and then up Southwark Bridge road. Much more pleasant, if slower.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Do you find that blue paint run to be any use? Looked like a terrifying gauntlet run of lorries from that Guardian video.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
In case it hasn't been posted the London Assembly has launched a survey asking for information from cyclists and other Londoners about cycling in the capital.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Surprised there aren't more 'dodgy U-turn' KSi's - I've seen a few near-misses of that kind - taxis about half the time.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Need more info about age, experience, whether wearing headphones etc ...
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
My route is Brixton Hill -> Oval -> Elephant -> Southwark Bridge -> Barbican. Google Maps Directions (snipped at start and end, obviously!)Do you find that blue paint run to be any use? Looked like a terrifying gauntlet run of lorries from that Guardian video.
I take back streets and join Brixton Road at Atlantic Road. I join the blue paint at Oval, where it's really just the bus lane, all the way to Elephant. At the ped crossing before the junction proper, the blue paint turns off the road and goes through the back streets, avoiding the roundabout. It involves a few left-then-immediately-right turns, and two light-controlled crossings of the roads that radiate from the roundabout, but it gets me onto Southwark Bridge Road without having to deal with any 4 lane megaroads. The blue paint along SBR is pretty good. Not segregated, but wide and flat, although it does start and stop to allow for car parking. On-street residential car parking! In zone 1! A crime, IMO.
Then there's the junction with Southwark Street, which is completely unaltered and is a shit junction for cyclists. The approach to the bridge isn't great, with no marked bike lane, vehicles parked by the kerb, and a patch of motorbike parking right by the entrance to the segregated path over the bridge which is *just* wide enough for cyclists to overtake each other but not wide enough for it to feel comfortable.
Then the other side of the bridge, the blue paint disappears completely and you have to jostle with traffic in 2 lanes to get to the front of the lights. This junction is also shit for cyclists. After that it's City streets which aren't too bad.
I take this route because it's got less traffic and pollution, not because of the blue paint. The "superhighway" created no real new infrastructure and should have its nasty junctions (Oval, Kennington, Elephant, Southwark Road, Upper Thames Street) properly remodelled to give cyclists priority rather than lip service.
Last edited:
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
In general, the blue paint superhighways are little better than useless. However the bit at Elephant & Castle is ok, cos it takes you round the back of the two major roundabouts through quiet backstreets and cycle-only tracks. There's even some separated lanes in places. As Crispy says, it's slower, but much safer and more pleasant.Do you find that blue paint run to be any use? Looked like a terrifying gauntlet run of lorries from that Guardian video.
Some of it can be seen on this video:
And then continued on this video:
Worth mentioning that this type of infrastructure is the exception, not the rule.
Last edited:
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Apparently the police/TfL only record information which they believe is a factor in the accident.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Very interesting stats. Where there are comparable causes with reverse fault - disobeying junction priorities, for instance - the other vehicle is at fault roughly twice as much as the cyclist.(And the top cause is 100% the driver's fault, turning right into a cyclist, ffs.)
Those stats bear out the notion that cyclists are the most vigilant and careful of all road users, which given their vulnerability is not a surprise.
Last edited:
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
If they bring in a petty rule about headphones, I hope they also adopt the Germans' seriousness about bicycle lighting too.
(Not entirely serious about this last thing though as I'm never going to get type approval for my DIY lights)
(Not entirely serious about this last thing though as I'm never going to get type approval for my DIY lights)
Similar threads
