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5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

Pickman's model said:
you've not thought this through. fewer hgvs during rush hour = more hgvs outside rush hour, a greater concentration of them, and fucking with drivers' working patterns may lead to more accidents. try to think of the consequences of things you propose. turning to the traffic lights slowing down cars may lead to more cars going through yellow lights and rushing as soon as lights change, with increased ppotential for
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accidents
 
Excellent piece here:
Let's Stop Scoring Points Over Dead Cyclists
If you need a barometer of just how much a bunch of utter bastards humankind can be, look no further than a story about a cyclist dying on the roads of London.

Tragically, you won't need to look far - six in the last fortnight should give you plenty of ammunition - and it seems everybody has a little bit of hatred reserved for the people who leave home in the morning and end up lying in a morgue rather than sitting at a desk.

Even Boris Johnson threw his barely-used bike helmet in the ring this week, stating that there could be "no question of blame or finger pointing," before finger pointing and laying the blame squarely at the feet of the cyclists who ended up beneath the wheels of heavy goods vehicles and buses on the capital's roads.

The internet swiftly - and predictably - erupted in outrage that humans could be so rude as to meet their maker instead of turning up to work in the morning.

Over on the Daily Mail, the nattily named 'bornfreetaxedtodeath' posed the reasonable question: "How many car drivers have been killed by trying to avoid these lycra two aside idiots & come face to death with a lorry?", before heading over to another forum to complain that the erratic nature of whales could be putting the lives of harpooners in danger.

'Rickz_88' literally misunderstood what the word literally means by suggesting that all cyclists "literally have a death wish", while 'Louisa-Jane' decided that the only reasonable solution is that "cyclists should be banned from the centre of London. They'll never be safe on those roads. If they ARE going to insist on riding their bikes then they should have to pay road tax." More on that later.

'Kay' rounded up the empathy of the nation nicely by pointing out that the dead cyclist "wasnt the only 'victim' here what about the driver? Very biased story, you don't have to read between the lines to notice the glaring ommisions in this one." (sic)

The Guardian's readers enjoyed a rant as well; 'Trilla' argued that "cyclists should not be on the road", before presumably complaining about them being on the pavement as well, and'Jakem' showed his empathetic side by grumbling "By and large, cyclists aren't victims, they're the problem," while enthusiastically ignoring the stats - or the dead bodies - that show otherwise.

'Soundboy42' also willfully ignored the fact that - so far, at least - there's no indication that any of the cyclists killed this week were doing anything wrong, by adding that "If cyclists simply follow the road rules they'll be safe."

So, in the interests of us all getting along, I've devised a little guide that'll help you not to be a total dick next time a family gets a visit from the local police force with some bad news.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matt-glass/london-cyclist-deaths_b_4298701.html
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Here's your classic dumb cyclist in action in Brixton. With cycling like this no wonder they had an accident.
I'm not that interested in all the press chatter. All these opinions were well known before all these events.

 
gentlegreen said:
Mine would go something like "helmets and headphones" Boris ?

fuck right off.
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Perhaps you could consider a slight change so you can stick with convention. Address him as "Dear Mr Johnson", Boris may be a little informal.

The content is perfect though.
 
fredfelt said:
If we are to follow Pickman's logic on this issue these figures clearly show that it's time to start training pedestrians how to cross roads, and walk on pavements.
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Not a terrible idea.

(As far as the pedestrians who'd rather be alive than In The Right go, anyway.

Those who'd rather be In The Right, those who prefer to navigate the streets as the Ought To Be rather than as they are... evolution will take care of them.)
 
laptop said:
Not a terrible idea.

(As far as the pedestrians who'd rather be alive than In The Right go, anyway.

Those who'd rather be In The Right, those who prefer to navigate the streets as the Ought To Be rather than as they are... evolution will take care of them.)
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Would you be happy to attend a course which tells you how to walk on a pavement? One which tells you how to avoid cars which are driving at you?
 
fredfelt said:
Would you be happy to attend a course which tells you how to walk on a pavement? One which tells you how to avoid cars which are driving at you?
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Pitch me. Tell me about how I'm going to get new tips for spotting drivers who, in the real world, are about to kill me.

Now pitch me as a 7-year-old, or rather pitch my headteacher on how her school ranking will be improved by my survival.

If you'd rather be dead than admit you have something to learn, evolution has an answer for you too.
 
Laptop, you know better than most that 'common sense' can be a terrible guide. What evidence can you produce? What have you learned from this thread about the nature of the problem?
 
laptop said:
Pitch me. Tell me about how I'm going to get new tips for spotting drivers who, in the real world, are about to kill me.

Now pitch me as a 7-year-old, or rather pitch my headteacher on how her school ranking will be improved by my survival.

If you'd rather be dead than admit you have something to learn, evolution has an answer for you too.
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Personally I don't think teaching adults basic road safety would make our streets safer - but as you are keen here's a resource for you.

http://www.brake.org.uk/info-resour...ty-resources-for-children-and-adults-with-sen
 
Brixton Hatter said:
Aussie website did a test on cyclists using headphones in traffic - turns out cyclists with headphones can hear just as much outside noise as drivers in cars, sometimes more.

http://rideons.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/an-ear-on-the-traffic/

Not that I'm defending it. Pisses on Boris's theory though.
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That's certainly my experience over 26 years - of course you can't regulate for how loud people turn it up - and in-ear and noise-cancelling ones are a no-no - but then I'm sure there are people out there who deliberately wear earplugs to keep the wind out.
 
There was some bod on there saying how as a driver he had to take loads of lessons and swot up on "box junctions" etc ... and by inference cyclists who aren't also drivers need to be extensively trained.

I got on a motorcycle at 17 and knew how the roads worked as a pedestrian and bus passenger - I grew up in a household with no car.
I had a few hours training around that time, but can't recall much of it sinking in.

I never had a driving lesson - after 7 years as a motorcyclist I just drove a three-wheeler around the block to work out how the non-synchro gears worked etc. I don't reckon non-motorcyclists actually have the skills to handle a 3-wheeler correctly.

There are specific survival skills though - but I can't remember ever thinking going up the inside of a bus was a good idea even when I fist got onto the road.

The past 26 years of riding a bicycle has taught me the most and I hope it reflects in the way I drive.

The bottom line though is we need all the stats about all the KSIs - what experience the people had and what they were doing at the time.
 
Onket said:
The test should be headphone wearing cyclist vs non-headphone wearing cyclist. A driver is protected by his car, a cyclist isn't.
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Only if you apply the test to drivers and their radios, too. After all, it is the drivers who are in charge of the heavy, dangerous machine, not the cyclists.

Is listening to the radio while cycling any more of a distraction to the cyclist than it is to a driver while driving? If not, then the most important thing to do wrt road safety is to ban radios from cars - the driver is in charge of a dangerous machine in the way that a cyclist is not.
 
I wonder if not wearing headphones would be more useful as a cyclist in the Netherlands where there are lots of cyclists all close together ?

I'll lift off an earphone or two on unfamiliar roads ...
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Only if you apply the test to drivers and their radios, too. After all, it is the drivers who are in charge of the heavy, dangerous machine, not the cyclists.

Is listening to the radio while cycling any more of a distraction to the cyclist than it is to a driver while driving? If not, then the most important thing to do wrt road safety is to ban radios from cars - the driver is in charge of a dangerous machine in the way that a cyclist is not.
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Yes, I see this. I just don't think that it's the correct comparison.

I think if you compare cyclists without headphones to cyclists wearing headphones you will find that those wearing headphones cannot hear other traffic as well, and are therefore more at risk.

Not sure about banning them, but certainly wouldn't wear headphones any more than I'd wear an eyepatch or try to cycle with one foot tied to my elbow.
 
Onket said:
Yes, I see this. I just don't think that it's the correct comparison.

I think if you compare cyclists without headphones to cyclists wearing headphones you will find that those wearing headphones cannot hear other traffic as well, and are therefore more at risk..
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I reckon you are right. And as I said upthread, a similar study has already been done with cars - drivers not listening to the radio/music are safer. Not so much because they can hear the outside better, but because the radio/music is a distraction.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I reckon you are right. And as I said upthread, a similar study has already been done with cars - drivers not listening to the radio/music are safer. Not so much because they can hear the outside better, but because the radio/music is a distraction.
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It is pretty straightforward stuff, isn't it.
 
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