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5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

How far do we put the onus of safety on cyclist - I'm too sacred to cycle in London but personally think sit-up-and-beg bikes look to be safer than head-down racers.
 
:D

I've changed a fair bit in my attitude as I've got older. I'm a much more defensive cyclist now, and pretty sedate. When I was younger, I admit that I enjoyed the thrill of cycling in London and bombing along. But again, it isn't the young and reckless who were killed last week.
 
RedDragon said:
Ban death people from cycling too. :mad: (joke)
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:confused:

300px-Death_Bike.png
 
Utopia said:
Headphones don't normally allow any other sound into the ear, playing music does allow other sounds in to a point, in fairness your post didn't mention the level of the music was 'deafening'.....if thats the case then yes deafening music should also be banned then.
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Cars and lorries are often sealed, air-conditioned units. Throw in even an even moderately loud volume sound system and the prospect of hearing street noises (like the shout of a cyclist) are just about zero.

How many of the cyclists killed in London have been wearing headphones, btw?
 
editor said:
How many of the cyclists killed in London have been wearing headphones, btw?
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If you read the thread you'll come across my response to a very similar question.

At this point no one knows if headphones were being worn or contributed to the accidents. All I know is I wouldn't feel safe in traffic without the use of my ears.

Also I think its much more important that a cyclist can hear the traffic rather than the traffic hearing a cyclist.
 
Around 10 pedestrians per year are killed by HGVs in London, too. They are not just a danger to cyclists.

This link has some interesting stats. Of pedestrians injured by vehicles jumping red lights, 4% were by cyclists. A pedestrian is 20 times more likely to be hit by a car jumping a red light than by a cyclist. It also says that between 1998 and 2007, no pedestrians were killed by cyclists on pavements, while in that time period, 54 were killed by motor vehicles. That's a staggering number - five people per year are killed by vehicles that plough into them when they are on the pavement.

Cyclist bad behaviour may be annoying to pedestrians, but the danger it poses to them is tiny compared to the danger they are posed by motor vehicles.
 
editor said:
Given that "more than half of the lorry drivers stopped by police in a cycle safety operation this morning were found to be breaking HGV safety rules," I'd say statistically there's a very good chance that some HGVs were indeed dodgy.

Source: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hgv-drivers-caught-in-bike-safety-operation-8946997.html
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It might be about half. In which case, it may not be an important factor - you could get all the hgvs up to speed and cyclists will continue to be killed. Take them off the streets during rush hour, morning and evening, at the very least.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It might be about half. In which case, it may not be an important factor - you could get all the hgvs up to speed and cyclists will continue to be killed. Take them off the streets during rush hour, morning and evening, at the very least.
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Well that is the real issue, instead of trying to shift the entire blame onto cyclists.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Around 10 pedestrians per year are killed by HGVs in London, too. They are not just a danger to cyclists.

This link has some interesting stats. Of pedestrians injured by vehicles jumping red lights, 4% were by cyclists. A pedestrian is 20 times more likely to be hit by a car jumping a red light than by a cyclist. It also says that between 1998 and 2007, no pedestrians were killed by cyclists on pavements, while in that time period, 54 were killed by motor vehicles. That's a staggering number - five people per year are killed by vehicles that plough into them when they are on the pavement.

Cyclist bad behaviour may be annoying to pedestrians, but the danger it poses to them is tiny compared to the danger they are posed by motor vehicles.
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If we are to follow Pickman's logic on this issue these figures clearly show that it's time to start training pedestrians how to cross roads, and walk on pavements.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It might be about half. In which case, it may not be an important factor - you could get all the hgvs up to speed and cyclists will continue to be killed. Take them off the streets during rush hour, morning and evening, at the very least.
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Obviously getting the dodgy ones off the road is a good thing to do but no conclusions can be drawn about this particular spate of deaths from that alone.

The article also doesn't say how they decided to choose which ones to stop.
 
gentlegreen said:
Boris wants cycling with headphones banned. :facepalm:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/boris-johnson-considers-banning-cyclists-headphones

Because all the middle-aged cyclists who were killed were wearing them were they ?
And jumping red lights ?

I bet they were all wearing helmets and hi-viz too....
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Personally, I don't wear headphones whilst cycling cos I like to hear what's going on about me, but banning them is not the answer. Wearing headphones whilst cycling is one of those things that some people feel instinctively is wrong, but have no real evidence to suggest there's a greater chance of accident/death.

Anyway, Boris Johnson has a fucking cheek to avoid the infrastructure question and instead focus on audio devices distracting cyclists on the road:

BZcF80qCUAAQuLd.jpg


Also, no high-vis, no helmet, and look at that cable lock dangling dangerously near the front wheel/brakes!
 
Parliamentary Transport Select Committee is doing an evidence session on cycling on 2 December - you can send them a tweet/email etc if you want: http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...tee/inquiries/parliament-2010/cycling-safety/

We would like to hear views on:

  • Whether cycling is safe, particularly in towns and cities
  • What central and local Government could do to improve cycling safety. Ideas could include better training and advice for drivers and cyclists, better enforcement of the law applying to drivers and cyclists, and better vehicle and road infrastructure.
  • Whether it would be desirable and feasible to segregate cyclists from other road users, including, for example, by prohibiting HGVs from entering city centres at peak hours.
Other ideas for improving cycling safety would also be welcomed.

Views can be sent to us via Twitter @CommonsTrans using#cyclesafe.

Alternatively, we will accept written submissions until Tuesday 26 November. These must be submitted via the Transport Committee website.
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The guy who got killed in Camberwell was a volunteer at Cooltan

("In December 2011, Mr Muzira, a father of two, won a “Local Heroes” award from the Bank of America for his voluntary service. He chose to donate his £3,000 prize to CoolTan Arts.") ;(
The sixth London cyclist to die in a fortnight was a “local hero” who had won a prestigious award for his voluntary work, it emerged today.

Richard Muzira, who was described as a “wonderful man”, was dragged under the wheels of a tipper truck in Camberwell yesterday.

Witnesses told how paramedics battled at the roadside for 30-minutes to save him but he was declared dead at the scene.

It came as a cyclist was today recovering in hospital after he was also dragged under the front wheel of a lorry outside Camden Town Tube station.

Charity worker Mr Muzira, in his sixties, was said to be an experienced cyclist who had recently had his bike stolen in a burglary. He was riding his friend’s bike at the time of his death and was saving for a new one.

Family and friends today told of their devastation as they struggled to come to terms with the tragedy. Michelle Baharier, chief executive of the mental heath charity CoolTan Arts, where Mr Muzira had volunteered for a number of years, said: “You couldn’t ask for a more lovely person than Richard. He was a fantastic friend. He was really community-spirited and was a complete and utter intellectual. He was a very calm and really astute person.

“This has come as such a shock to all of us here. We were due to see him today.”
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http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...was-local-hero-and-wonderful-man-8949254.html
 
Worth seeing again:



TfL (Transport for London) have made a video showing just how blind lorry drivers are in some circumstances. This is great evidence for the argument that heavy-goods vehicles and bikes shouldn’t have to share the same road space
 
editor said:
Worth seeing again:



TfL (Transport for London) have made a video showing just how blind lorry drivers are in some circumstances. This is great evidence for the argument that heavy-goods vehicles and bikes shouldn’t have to share the same road space
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I've sat in a cab like that. The visibility is shit.

This video just goes to show how crazy it is the vehicles with such poor visibility are allowed on the roads. HGVs built since 2009 have to have 2 extra mirrors (making a total of 6) including one above the passenger door pointed downwards, to help see cyclists. (Hurrah for the EU, who brought in this law!) It looks like the lorry in the video doesn't have that additional mirror. And lorries older than 2009 can get away without the extra mirrors - which is scandalous in my opinion. They should be forced to be retro-fitted, it's not exactly expensive to add a mirror or two.

The even more ridiculous thing is that - instead of redesigning lorry cabs for better visibility - the London Mayor aims to encourage lorries to fit sensors and other safety equipment. And if lorries don't do this, they will simply be fined £200, rather than being banned from London roads. Absolutely crazy: just use cyclists lives as a cash cow for TfL :rolleyes: :mad:
 
Article on the CTC website, which among other things, reminds us that Boris has form for victim-blaming in cycle deaths:

Boris Johnson hasn’t helped in the slightest, with his sickeningly insensitive comments in a radio interview. He said “There's no question of blame or finger-pointing”, yet he then went straight on to do just that. "Unless people obey the laws of the road and people actively take account of the signals that we put in, there's no amount of traffic engineering that we invest in that is going to save people's lives."

Boris has form when it comes to this kind of victim-blaming. He once produced a made-up statistic, claiming that 62% of cyclists suffering fatal and serious injuries in London had been breaching the rules of the road at the time. It took 4 months for him to admit that this statement was incorrect.
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Also, TfL data suggests that cyclists are far safer road users than drivers or motorbikers:

…[TfL data] suggest that 5% of cyclists' serious and fatal injuries involved red-light jumping or disobedience of junction controls by the cyclists themselves, compared with 15% by drivers or motorcyclists.
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http://www.ctc.org.uk/blog/roger-ge...cking-responsibility-for-action-to-save-lives
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Not so much cash necessarily. How much would it cost to ban lorries from central London during the rush hour and install new traffic lights that give cyclists a head-start? Those two measures combined would make a massive difference.
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you've not thought this through. fewer hgvs during rush hour = more hgvs outside rush hour, a greater concentration of them, and fucking with drivers' working patterns may lead to more accidents. try to think of the consequences of things you propose. turning to the traffic lights slowing down cars may lead to more cars going through yellow lights and rushing as soon as lights change, with increased ppotential for
 
Pickman's model said:
you've not thought this through. fewer hgvs during rush hour = more hgvs outside rush hour, a greater concentration of them, and fucking with drivers' working patterns may lead to more accidents. try to think of the consequences of things you propose.
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it is already done in other cities whose experience we can learn from. So yes, I have thought it through. Unlike you who has thought through nothinf on this thread.
 
Surely the very least these lorries need is wheelarch covers, video cameras, proximity sensors like they have in aircraft (and underground train doors) , SERIOUS indicator repeaters with voice / beepers ...
 
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