Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

So, what's the police response to all this?

This morning they have been stopping cyclists to give them "advice", like telling them to wear a helmet and high-viz, neither of which are required for cyclists to be lawful on the road. Why do anything meaningful, when you can simply set up a PR exercise and blame the victims?

http://road.cc/content/news/99098-l...sts-without-helmets-advice-education-exercise

Interesting to note that, according to LBC, another police operation stopped 20 HGVs and they found a total of 60 separate offences, like drivers working for too long and vehicles in dangerous conditions.
 
Brixton Hatter said:
So, what's the police response to all this?

This morning they have been stopping cyclists to give them "advice", like telling them to wear a helmet and high-viz, neither of which are required for cyclists to be lawful on the road. Why do anything meaningful, when you can simply set up a PR exercise and blame the victims?
Click to expand...

What complete bollocks. Wearing a helmet and hi-viz did nothing to stop my boss getting taken out by a taxi pulling a U-turn in front of him, breaking his collarbone, tearing a ligament and keeping him off his bike for 4 months.
 
Brixton Hatter said:
So, what's the police response to all this?

This morning they have been stopping cyclists to give them "advice", like telling them to wear a helmet and high-viz, neither of which are required for cyclists to be lawful on the road. Why do anything meaningful, when you can simply set up a PR exercise and blame the victims?

http://road.cc/content/news/99098-l...sts-without-helmets-advice-education-exercise

Interesting to note that, according to LBC, another police operation stopped 20 HGVs and they found a total of 60 separate offences, like drivers working for too long and vehicles in dangerous conditions.
Click to expand...

To avoid being called some kind of apologist for the poor behaviour of cyclists I feel that I first need to say that - yes a cyclist may well be at fault if they give killed by an HVG - but you raise an issue that really needs to be looked at.

Of the recent deaths the vast majority have been people killed by HGV's - while HGV's make up around 20% of the traffic in London.

I also recall a report where on a random stop of HGV drivers every single vehicle pulled over had at least one fault - with many vehicles falling well below the standard required.

The statistics show that buses show a much lesser risk. Buses have much lower cabs and you have much better visibility when you drive one. These cabs exist for HGV's but I assume the extra cost of these cabs can't be justified - even though mass adoption when replacing HGVs' would undoubtedly save lives.

The Road Haulage Association accept that visibility is a real problem with HGV drivers - their preferred route is to do outreach sessions where they let people sit in HGV's to show just how much of a problem visibility is. At the same time they lobby against any 'red tape' which could improve visibility for the vehicles.
 
Did I miss something, since when was it permissible for the police to detain cyclist for not wearing helmets and hi-viz jackets?
 
fredfelt said:
To avoid being called some kind of apologist for the poor behaviour of cyclists I feel that I first need to say that - yes a cyclist may well be at fault if they give killed by an HVG - but you raise an issue that really needs to be looked at.

Of the recent deaths the vast majority have been people killed by HGV's - while HGV's make up around 20% of the traffic in London.
Click to expand...
HGVs actually make up around 4% of the traffic in London but are involved in 53% of cycling fatalities. (Source.)

Most HGVs are really poorly designed. I've sat in the cab of one - it's shocking how poor the visibility is. Even with the 6 special mirrors they have to have now (lorries pre-2009 don't have to have the additional mirrors, which is totally crazy). They shouldn't really even be allowed on the road in rush hour imo, without a significant redesign. Apparently one of the reasons the cab is so high is to enable the cargo bit of the lorry to be as long as possible, so they can carry as much gear as possible (there is a length limit on lorries.) A lower cab with better side visibility (like dustbin lorries) would really help - but the freight lobby doesn't want to countenance anything which reduces the maximum possible load.

Making cyclists sit in the cab of an HGV for education purposes, rather than addressing the problems of visibility and road design, again puts the onus for safety on the cyclist, rather than on the authorities or motorists.
 
fredfelt said:
...The Road Haulage Association accept that visibility is a real problem with HGV drivers - their preferred route is to do outreach sessions where they let people sit in HGV's to show just how much of a problem visibility is. At the same time they lobby against any 'red tape' which could improve visibility for the vehicles.
Click to expand...

I think you're right to point out the visibility problem which make it difficult for bus and, particularly, HGV drivers to see cyclists.

As someone who cycles, and also drives cars and larger vehicles in London, it strikes me that some (and I stress some) cyclists don't appear to realise this, and judging from the way they ride assume that all vehicles have the same visibility and maneuverability that they do (there are also car drivers who seem not to realise that HGVs have less visibility and a larger turning circle than them, BTW, it's not just cyclists).

There are limits to the extent that these problems can be physically overcome (though I'm not suggesting that we've anything like reached them), but part of the solution has to be cyclists recognising that when they share the road with buses and HGVs they need to be aware of these issues and ride accordingly.
 
Would it be feasible for all HGV's to be given a London delivery window of say from 11pm to 6am?, is that possible/enforceable? Just asking?......


(2013 so far: 14 deaths, nine involving HGVs) BBC.
 
Utopia said:
Would it be feasible for all HGV's to be given a London delivery window of say from 11pm to 6am?, is that possible/enforceable? Just asking?......
Click to expand...
The mayor could do that overnight, except there's existing restrictions in place on night time deliveries.
 
Utopia said:
If 2 minutes worth of advice saves a life then i'm all for it.
Click to expand...
I'm not a cyclist so not in a postion to argue, but I thought the jury was still out on the effectiveness of helmets.

Anyway, condolences to friends & family of today's casualty. :(
 
Utopia said:
Would it be feasible for all HGV's to be given a London delivery window of say from 11pm to 6am?, is that possible/enforceable?
Click to expand...

I thought I remembered Mayor Ken doing that, or at least proposing it. Was it never passed? Did Boris undo it?
 
RedDragon said:
I'm not a cyclist so not in a postion to argue, but I thought the jury was still out on the effectiveness of helmets.

Anyway, condolences to friends & family of today's casualty. :(
Click to expand...

The combination of lights, hi-viz clothing & helmets all makes cycling a lot safer.....sounds like thats what the old bill are pointing out, i'm a cyclist & the amount I see in London with none of the above beggers belief!
 
Utopia said:
The combination of lights, hi-viz clothing & helmets all makes cycling a lot safer.....sounds like thats what the old bill are pointing out, i'm a cyclist & the amount I see in London with none of the above beggers belief!
Click to expand...

It makes cycling safer, but whether or not it makes cycling a lot safer is questionable. Given the high proportion of HGVs involved in fatalities, this suggests to me that such things may not be the most important factor - doesn't matter what you're wearing if you're in the HGV's blind spot.

Again, it's a reaction to cyclist deaths that looks primarily to the cyclists to change what they do, when that may very well not be the issue at all.
 
This is the scene of the latest death on Camberwell Road/Albany Road:

cyc.jpg


Looks like the lorry was turning left, so possibly another 'left hook' incident. :(
 
They've got much better recently. I'm guessing quite a few of their staff cycle these days.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

editor
London in wartime: a bomb explodes near Drury Lane in 1944
2
Replies
43
Views
1K
WouldBe
WouldBe
Kaka Tim
In (W) London Sat night - Recomendations? Soho?
2
Replies
32
Views
847
story
story
tim
Horses on the rampage in Central London.
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
190
Views
6K
kebabking
kebabking
ouirdeaux
Where not to watch England vs Spain Euro 2024 final in London
Replies
8
Views
385
littlebabyjesus
littlebabyjesus
Helen Back
Where can we find a household rubbish removal service in West London that will take away heavy kitchen stuff from indoors and upstairs?
Replies
2
Views
183
Helen Back
Helen Back
Back
Top Bottom