5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

[TotallyGreatGuy]

Pickman very clearly states he is a bully. Engaging with him is futile most of the time from what I have seen. He is clearly trolling (which I have nothing against) and people are taking the bait. DNFTT.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not so sure about point 8), Remus. There has been an explosion of cycling in London in the past decade. The political will to change things could appear just as quickly.

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

Telling him to piss off (which I have no right to do really) would have the opposite effect.

 

[Pickman's model]

weepiper and TotallyGreatGuy - I got to say I am surprised that you think this is 'just pointless bickering' - ie that it's six of one, half a dozen of the other (not directly what you said TGG but implied in the context).

PM has a ton of form for pointless thread-fucking with attention-seeking antics and he's got a particular habit of trolling cycling threads (usually ones where people are trying to discuss safety) with snidey legalistic anti-cycling stuff. He's directly, visibly pissed off at least half the posters on this thread already. If enough people tell him to piss off, even he might get the cue & then the thread might get somewhere useful.

But if you think that you can get a useful debate going with him included then I'm all eyes here, I haven't seen anyone else make a success of it, so good luck.

let's see, have you tried that on this thread? or have you jumped in in a manner calculated to put most people's backs up? telling people to hound someone off a thread is more likely to have the opposite effect than to succeed.

 

[co-op]

Telling him to piss off (which I have no right to do really) would have the opposite effect.

 

[Pickman's model]

Engaging with him is futile most of the time from what I have seen.

why not try to engage, you might be surprised.

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

I said most of the time as a caveat. I imagine you would be a highly interesting fellow to discuss many subjects with.

 

[Winot]

I remember that clip. But I have to say although the lorry driver was imo obviously driving like a cunt (ie normally for London), the junction's design makes conflict inevitable. The only way to take that junction safely is to get right out into the lane and not let anyone overtake, but then you are at risk of getting some nasty piece of work getting on your back wheel and blatting their horn at you for fun.

I cycle home that way and noticed that since the resurfacing work the painted arrow now is a 'turn left' arrow rather than a 'turn left or go straight'. No doubt that'll be used in the event of a future similar collision to argue that the cyclist was in the wrong lane .

Personally speaking I start off at the post office lights (facing the park) in the rh lane, stick to the right round the bend, then filter into the middle of the middle lane in order to go straight on at the junction in question. I have been hooted at a number of times by drivers who I am 'holding up', but fuck 'em.

 

[gentlegreen]

If I was routinely hooted at from behind, I would fit my twin air horns facing backwards.

 

[co-op]

let's see, have you tried that on this thread? or have you jumped in in a manner calculated to put most people's backs up? telling people to hound someone off a thread is more likely to have the opposite effect than to succeed.

Shut up and get on with being a prick, you're less objectionable than when you pretend to be normal.

 

[co-op]

I cycle home that way and noticed that since the resurfacing work the painted arrow now is a 'turn left' arrow rather than a 'turn left or go straight'. No doubt that'll be used in the event of a future similar collision to argue that the cyclist was in the wrong lane .

Personally speaking I start off at the post office lights (facing the park) in the rh lane, stick to the right round the bend, then filter into the middle of the middle lane in order to go straight on at the junction in question. I have been hooted at a number of times by drivers who I am 'holding up', but fuck 'em.

It could be solved without any problem by letting cyclists go 20 seconds ahead of cars at those lights - or by making the left turn a traffic light turn and giving cyclists about 8 seconds start. The amount of effort that is put into facilitating the car-using minority in London is amazing, it's like they actually put in extra work to make the roads extra dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians.

 

[co-op]

Telling him to piss off (which I have no right to do really) would have the opposite effect.

The real solution is the Ignore function which has awesome new functionality - they are completely wiped out. It's both and very .

 

[Pickman's model]

Shut up and get on with being a prick, you're less objectionable than when you pretend to be normal.

it's disappointing how much of your discourse is based on 'do as i say not as i do'. your brief foray into trying to put forward an argument seems to have been more an aberration than theme.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It could be solved without any problem by letting cyclists go 20 seconds ahead of cars at those lights - or by making the left turn a traffic light turn and giving cyclists about 8 seconds start. The amount of effort that is put into facilitating the car-using minority in London is amazing, it's like they actually put in extra work to make the roads extra dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians.

Absolutely this. It's a simple, workable, effective solution.

And the bit in bold is a very good thing to remember, too.

 

[ruffneck23]

Pickman very clearly states he is a bully. Engaging with him is futile most of the time from what I have seen. He is clearly trolling (which I have nothing against) and people are taking the bait. DNFTT.

you really havent been here very long have you ? you may see it as bullying, i see it as objective disagreement, and if you cant understand the actual posts im not surprised you see it as bullying.

As PM says try and engage, you might be surprised when you actually have an intellectual arguement

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Hey Pickman's model now you've got the bad cyclist behaviour off your chest, what do you think of my suggested solution in this post:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-1-week-in-london.317237/page-7#post-12704294

And the poor standard of road design in this video:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-1-week-in-london.317237/page-7#post-12704312

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Interesting list Remus.

1) The 'super highways' are nothing but a PR piece that's slowly falling apart/fading into nothingness
2) Cycling should be encouraged, but there needs to be much better investment in infrastructure (I wouldn't get on a bike for anything at the moment)
3) HGV/Lorry/Van drivers are often under immense pressure/knackered and don't see/mind anything that's not a motorised vehicle, many are also from outside London, unfamiliar with the layout

Yes, yes and yes.

4) Some cyclists do seem to think they are God's gift to the world, not realising that they are nothing but a few stone of soft, squishy flesh on a wireframe

Yeah there's lots of twats on bikes, just like there are lots of twats driving motor vehicles. But I think most cyclists are acutely aware of the fact they are merely soft, squishy flesh…which is why drivers will often get an earful from a cyclist when there's a near miss.

5) Pedestrians are and should be king – they don't use any resources but their own and have the roughest deal really

Yes. Any improvement in cycling infrastructure shouldn't be at the expense of pedestrians.

6) Cyclists speeding down pavements should have their bikes confiscated, as should cyclists without lights at night

No. This is typical knee-jerk nonsense. I know those activities are wrong, but do you think drivers should have their cars confiscated if they break the speed limit, mount the pavement or fail to put their lights on at night? The reason someone is cycling on the pavement may be they are too scared to cycle on the road - hence we need space for cycling.

7) Highway code training should be absolutely mandatory when purchasing a bike – anything that can go up to 20mph is dangerous to anyone that can't

I can't agree. There's lots of cycle training available, both for adults via local authorities and for kids in schools via the Bikeability scheme - and it's useful - but it's not the answer. We have extensive training and testing for drivers, but it still doesn't stop people driving like dicks. Proper space for cycling is what is required.

8) A truly better infrastructure is not going to happen any time soon – there's no real political will to change this (forget about the blonde Cousin It in city hall)

I agree. The mayor is saying the right things but not backing it up with action. You'll hear him say "we're putting £1billion into cycling" - this is actually £913million over 10 years, so £91m per year. And only half of that comes from TfL - the other half is from local authorities. So the cycle budget is actually £45m per year (a drop in the ocean compared to the roads budget) and lots of that goes on things other than infrastructure, such as the cycle hire scheme.

And although warm words have been coming from the Mayor and TfL via their recent cycle strategy, we're not seeing enough action on the ground. Lots of Boroughs/local authorities (who are responsible for the non-TfL roads, i.e. not the main roads) are still continually coming up with road and junction schemes which offer little more than paint on the road for cyclists. The Mayor is slowly being forced into action….but local authorities are still dragging their feet.

 

[laptop]

do you think drivers should have their cars confiscated if they break the speed limit, mount the pavement or fail to put their lights on at night?

No.

They should be made to eat the tyres.

They kill someone, the whole car.

 

[co-op]

you really havent been here very long have you ? you may see it as bullying, i see it as objective disagreement, and if you cant understand the actual posts im not surprised you see it as bullying.

As PM says try and engage, you might be surprised when you actually have an intellectual arguement

TBF TGG said PM was trolling not bullying and this is obviously a widely held opinion among posters on this thread.

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

you really havent been here very long have you ? you may see it as bullying, i see it as objective disagreement, and if you cant understand the actual posts im not surprised you see it as bullying.

As PM says try and engage, you might be surprised when you actually have an intellectual arguement

I don't see it as bullying, I was merely stating a fact, good sir.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't see it as bullying, I was merely stating a fact, good sir.

an opinion, not a fact.

 

[Pickman's model]

TBF TGG said PM was trolling not bullying and this is obviously a widely held opinion among posters on this thread.

so you say. in fact you've been making things up throughout this thread, such as half the posters on the thread being pissed off with me, with no support for your assertion beyond, er, your assertion.

 

[Crispy]

So we have to have a pickman's model popularity vote to settle the matter? Sounds like fun.

 

[Pickman's model]

So we have to have a pickman's model popularity vote to settle the matter? Sounds like fun.

the issue isn't one of popularity but of an assertion that of the 25 people who aren't me or co-op who have posted on this thread i have "visibly pissed off more than half".

 

[Sue]

I agree with most of what Pickman's model has said. I don't cycle (or drive) and of course want cyclists to be able to cycle in a safe environment. I do though see a significant minority of cyclists doing extremely dangerous things (going through red lights and blindly crossing three lanes of traffic at one particular junction is one I see every day -- haven't seen anyone killed there yet (seen a few very near misses) but it must surely just be a matter of time). I don't know whether this kind of thing has contributed to these recent deaths but it must surely contribute to some of the accidents that occur. Obviously changes to infrastructure, better training for cyclists and better driving/awareness from drivers would help but cyclists do need to take more care.

In fact all road users need to take more care and pay more attention to other people. And cyclists showing more care where pedestrians are concerned would also help.

 

[Winot]

the issue isn't one of popularity but of an assertion that of the 25 people who aren't me or co-op who have posted on this thread i have "visibly pissed off more than half".

Are you going to answer Brixton Hatter's question in post #256?

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you going to answer Brixton Hatter's question in post #256?

yes

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

So we have to have a pickman's model popularity vote to settle the matter? Sounds like fun.

^ this.

 

[ferrelhadley]

There does not seem to be videos explaining to folk how to approach these junctions. I think there is a lot of scope for crowd sourced videos with experienced cyclists explaining to people how best to approach these junctions. Head cam shots with people explaining how to do it and the pitfalls kind of thing.

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

There does not seem to be videos explaining to folk how to approach these junctions. I think there is a lot of scope for crowd sourced videos with experienced cyclists explaining to people how best to approach these junctions. Head cam shots with people explaining how to do it and the pitfalls kind of thing.

That would be a pretty sensible idea. I am surprised that no one has made any videos on this either.