“No passaran!”
- Thread starter e19896
- Start date
So you honestly believe that most, if not all, the people who voted for them have no idea whatsoever of their immigration policies...and didn't have the slightest sympathy for prioritising the rights of the 'indigenous' population (whatever the f*** that means) over that of minority ethnic groups. You really need to wake up and smell the coffee my friend, because it's quite simply this total lack of understanding of the issue of racism that prevents us from effectively tackling the problem.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You are a proper moron. Challenge racism. Ok done. BNP vote =?
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
wtf is your argument as well? You're as all over the shop as him/her
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I don't know about most, but I do know about all. One person I know voted BNP a couple of years ago. She's not racist. Misinformed about the nature of the BNP, but certainly not racist. I bet there's loads more like her.
You need to "wake up and smell the coffee" mate. Maybe start listening to the grievances people have rather than labelling them as racist.
I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here, well aprt from the compliment!
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Pointing out that the BNP are racist hasn't exactly worked has it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You really don't do you partyzan?
I don't think I suggested for a moment that socio-economic problems weren't an issue. My point was that we should also look at the racism that is ever present in society, and not be afraid to challenge people over racist attitudes.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You (prtyzan) suggested that it was racism as the driving fact, not those conditions. Exactly back to front.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Sorry the link to the site whose actions you "support"
If you do actually bother reading itheir website, you'll see it mostly focuses on glorifying attacks on BNP members and or their property, and slagging of the Swappies and groups linked with them. The latter are clearly the wrong sort of anti-fascists.
Yes, racism is always there, and it is exacerbated by socio-economic problems.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, they are tim. And?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
wtf is this empty half-hearted drivel meant to mean? Look, i like the fact you're all up for doing something anti-fash and that, but that doesn't mean everything with that intention is good. If you're that concerned it means doing stuff other than this.
ffs we're on the same side here....tbh, the argument has now gone way off thread anyway, which is probably partly my fault, and besides these issues are being discussed on other threads.
But the half-hearted drivel, as you put it, was merely a response to clarify my point.
So what other stuff do you mean?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The stuff that atacks the conditions that give rise to the far right vote - the shit conditions many people live in, the bread and butter as blagsta put it - that's anti-fascism today , not these stupid fucking games designed to shore up the staus quo or penn sheep into the SWP.
Yes bread and butter politics is the most effective counter. Doing something like forming a support group of the unemployed for instance. grandstanding against the BNP is worthless unless its backed up to show we are the friends of ordinary people not the facists.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the swp? positive good? never!
Case in point the orthodox left are no longer seen to work for ordinary peoples interests whilst the facist are gaining support and portraying themselves as standing up for them. Ironicaly in part by adopting many anti-capitalist polices. You can easily imagine the facists organising a graffiti clean up pulling that sort of trick is winning them votes. The progressive left needs to get out there and offer an alternative support system.the swp? positive good? never!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That's not what the Swappies are there for. What they're there for is to keep churning membership and selling papers so that come the glorious revolution the Central Committee can take their rightful place governing the revolutionary masses.
*bangs head against wall* sadly true
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
They do a lot of union work, the defend council housing campaign was SWP etc. They're not my cup of tea, but neither is sectarianism.
Yes we probably are in danger of getting sidetracked into a sectarian argument here. I agree they do some good stuff, and i'm happy to work with SWP as with any other non-facist organisations (even right-wing libetarians as you are aware) to try and find a consentual way forward.
My point that which has been raised elsewhere to some extent on these boards:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=291816
The Left needs to work harder at engaging with and fighting for the views of our national underclass. That doesn't like the BNP say mean kicking out any 'other' but as you say fighting for bread and butter issues.
Actually there is common ground to be found amongst all humans if you try and look hard enougth, even if that common ground is simply fear.
It's possible I belive even to work together with capitalists, and especially on pan global issues such as climate change and opposing fascism.
On the political compass there are many libertarian capitalists who strongly oppose fascism, they just have a different way of trying to fight it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Defend this sytenms against the fascists! Defend Oxford, defend the queen, defend partliament, defend democracy, defend capitalism!
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