Your daily cat and kitten news
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May Kasahara
take me to the feeling
That's a fine selection of monochrome creatures there Motown_ben 
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
Wherever you live looks outstanding for puddycats. I imagine there are an almost infinite number of smaller creatures out there to be toyed with, killed and/or eaten.
I got back from my bike ride this morning to find one of my next door neighbours' cats on our adjoining garden wall, which is very rare. She likes me and was happy to stay there for a bit of a stroke. However, she legged it a few seconds later as she heard my house's cat flap go, fully aware that Missy was coming out.
xsunnysuex
Life is a horizontal fall.
Calamity1971
If Mr Peanut says It's okay, then it is.
The shrew population has taken a battering of late
. They don't seem to be that interested in birds which is a good thing.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
donkyboy That reminds me of when I was busking in Archway Square the other day (by the cycle track round the corner from the station). Opposite is the now disused Archway tavern, and I saw this black cat wandering round right on the top of the roof! I'm not sure how he got up there, unless there's people living in the roof level of that building and he just climbs in and out.
donkyboy
Crazy Cat/Fox man
there is out door black cat that managed to get onto the scaffolding and was wondering about outside my window two weeks ago. God knows how it managed to climb up. I see him/her often. but it is very suspicious of people and runs off. Got some food and opened the window but it jumped down onto the garden below.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
Just remembered my Paddy would have been 24 today. Hope you're having a party up there, mate.
Hope you're having a party up there, mate.
Last night's dinner was the hardest I've ever had to work to eat a meal. I had some chicken breasts on the bone, and had a crap bowl next to my plate to put the bones and gristle in. I could barely load up my fork before Missy was back up on the table sniffing around looking to snatch some of it (she has form in this area). In the end, after multiple table evictions and with not much eaten, I retired with the food to another room which I could shut her out of. I thereafter consumed my meal as usual, except serenaded by wailing just outside the door I'd just closed.
I don't think we truly appreciate how oppressed cats are.
I don't think we truly appreciate how oppressed cats are.
I tried that with Missy when she first moved in/took ownership of the house, but she's ample evidence that you can't train a cat.
I say that, but she very rarely does what I describe above, usually preferring to go outside once she's had her tea.
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
I have questions.
1. "Ginger toms" is the a genetic thing too? I have met a ginger female but only the one.
2. Under what circumstances do you get Tortie males?
3. My cat with the split colouring on her nose (you know the one, up-thread) was once described on a vet's form as "Tortie/point" what the fuck is all that about? The little I've read indicates they were talking shite, what do you say?
Ta
Thanks for asking! One thing I forgot to say in my previous post was that I was also monumentally tired and a little tipsy and may just fuck off to bed and forget that I'd been bored and wanted to chat about it
This is something that has come to much greater understanding to geneticists and cat-fanatics since the feline genome project, and may conflict with what folks were taught at school/college genetics classes that pre-date that.
Like in humans, red hair is caused by an MCR1 gene - this doesn't *make* hair/fur red, it supresses the production of eumelanin (brown pigment) without suppressing phyomelanin (red pigment) production. So most cats that are not red, produce both red pigment and brown pigment - in varying quantities and densities controlled by other genes. Those with red hair have production of brown pigment suppressed, so only red hair grows. The same goes for redhaired humans.
What differs in cats, is that the MCR1 gene is on the X chromosone, meaning that whether a cat produces its "base" colour or not depends on whether it has the MCR1 gene on its X chromosomes - like in humans, females have 2 X chromosomes, and males have 1.
So for a female cat to be red, it needs to have 2 copies of the MCR1 gene, one on each X chromosome. A male only has 1 X chromosome and so can more readily be red - around 3/4 of red cats are male. It is not rare for a female to be red though, 1/4 of all red cats is still a lot of female red cats!
So how do female cats end up tortoishell? Because the MCR1 gene is on the X chromosome and females have 2 X chromosomes, they can either be non-red (2 X chromosomes without the MCR1 gene) or red (2 X chromosomes with the MCR1 gene). Tortoishell happens when a female cat has an MCR1 gene on one X chromosome but not the other. In a human (where the gene is not on a sex-linked chromosome), this would result in the individual just carrying the red haired trait, maybe passing it on to future generations.
When a gene is on the X chromosome what happens is this - after a few cell divisions when the ovum is first fertilised, there is a random process that switches off one of the X chromosomes in each cell. This probably happens at around the 8 cell stage in cat embryos. That means that in female cat embryos that carry the gene, there will be a mix of cells - some with the MCR1 gene switched on and some with it switched off - and that is carried forward in every further cell division - so you can get tortie cats with a brindle effect, or with patches of colours, depending upon where those cells migrated to during embryonic development - it would be impossible to clone a tortie cat for identical looks btw, because although you could give it the exact same DNA, you could not control which chromosomes switched off, and where the cells that divided from them ended up in the skin - that's very random.
So how do a few male cats end up with tortie markings? There are 3 potential causes:
1 - XXY Klinefelter syndrome - yes this is a thing in cats, and rarely a cat appears to be physically male but with an extra X chromosome - the X chromosone switchoff mechanic works the same in these cats in the early embryonic stage, so they can display tortie markings. They are usually infertile, but otherwise nothing wrong.
2 - Chimerism - this occurs when 2 different embryos (we're talking small cell clusters, not formed recognisable kittens) fuse together in the womb - if 1 embryo has the MCR1 gene and the other does not and the resulting kitten is male, it will be a male with tortie markings. They may or may not be fertile, it varies. If fertile and bred from, they can potentially produce kittens that would be expected from both MCR1 and non MCR1 pairings, it depends upon the individual.
3 - Birthmarks - yes it can be that simple
- just like humans can have birthmarks so can cats - this seems to affect certain breeds more than others, Cornish Rex seem to be quite prone to them, and there have been several cases of male Cornish Rex that appear tortie from birth (obviously any change in skin that occurs after that should be investigated in case of melanoma). They are fertile, and when bred display that their genetics are either red or black, not both - so they are either genetically red-haired or genetically not red-haired and will pass on whichever of those applies, not both - the patches on their skin/fur are just markings similar to port wine stains or other birthmarks in humans.
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Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Oh and fucthest8 - tortie point refers specifically to siamese type colouring where the body is mostly pale with darker fur on the extremities. A tortie point would be siamese style markings with black/red, chocolate/red, blue/cream, lilac/cream, cinnamon/cream, or fawn/cream visible on the darker muzzle/ears/legs/tail.
Don't worry about whatever description is in the vet records, Sonic is recorded as a "Siamese, Blue Self" which is something that doesn't exist, just that they used to have an argumentative receptionist who argued about what breed he was despite me providing a pink slip - she'd never heard of OSH and therefore it was some newfangled thing that didn't exist (has been recognised by the GCCF and bred in the UK since the 1950s and existed naturally in Thailand since whenever, but nevermind)
Don't worry about whatever description is in the vet records, Sonic is recorded as a "Siamese, Blue Self" which is something that doesn't exist, just that they used to have an argumentative receptionist who argued about what breed he was despite me providing a pink slip - she'd never heard of OSH and therefore it was some newfangled thing that didn't exist (has been recognised by the GCCF and bred in the UK since the 1950s and existed naturally in Thailand since whenever, but nevermind)
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Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Same with my cats, they are allowed to sit and make whimpering noises, but not allowed to approach plates. They learn fairly quickly, and they do get a tiny treat if they behave well.
They're not daft. Had an incident with Sonic when he was little where he took a flying leap and landed on my plate of egg on toast, but he knows now to wait until the end and if he's good he'll get a little bit of egg or fish or whatever tiny flake of something that he can have without it being harmful.
I tend to eat meals with the cats forming a little semi-circle of longing around me, noses in the air sniffing and the occasional little noise, but they know to wait.
The only time where it has proven too much for them in adulthood was when I got smoked mackerel, they reverted to wild animals at that point...
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fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
Thanks for asking! One thing I forgot to say in my previous post was that I was also monumentally tired and a little tipsy and may just fuck off to bed and forget that I'd been bored and wanted to chat about it
This is something that has come to much greater understanding to geneticists and cat-fanatics since the feline genome project, and may conflict with what folks were taught at school/college genetics classes that pre-date that.
Like in humans, red hair is caused by an MCR1 gene - this doesn't *make* hair/fur red, it supresses the production of eumelanin (brown pigment) without suppressing phyomelanin (red pigment) production. So most cats that are not red, produce both red pigment and brown pigment - in varying quantities and densities controlled by other genes. Those with red hair have production of brown pigment suppressed, so only red hair grows. The same goes for redhaired humans.
What differs in cats, is that the MCR1 gene is on the X chromosone, meaning that whether a cat produces its "base" colour or not depends on whether it has the MCR1 gene on its X chromosomes - like in humans, females have 2 X chromosomes, and males have 1.
So for a female cat to be red, it needs to have 2 copies of the MCR1 gene, one on each X chromosome. A male only has 1 X chromosome and so can more readily be red - around 3/4 of red cats are male. It is not rare for a female to be red though, 1/4 of all red cats is still a lot of female red cats!
So how do female cats end up tortoishell? Because the MCR1 gene is on the X chromosome and females have 2 X chromosomes, they can either be non-red (2 X chromosomes without the MCR1 gene) or red (2 X chromosomes with the MCR1 gene). Tortoishell happens when a female cat has an MCR1 gene on one X chromosome but not the other. In a human (where the gene is not on a sex-linked chromosome), this would result in the individual just carrying the red haired trait, maybe passing it on to future generations.
When a gene is on the X chromosome what happens is this - after a few cell divisions when the ovum is first fertilised, there is a random process that switches off one of the X chromosomes in each cell. This probably happens at around the 8 cell stage in cat embryos. That means that in female cat embryos that carry the gene, there will be a mix of cells - some with the MCR1 gene switched on and some with it switched off - and that is carried forward in every further cell division - so you can get tortie cats with a brindle effect, or with patches of colours, depending upon where those cells migrated to during embryonic development - it would be impossible to clone a tortie cat for identical looks btw, because although you could give it the exact same DNA, you could not control which chromosomes switched off, and where the cells that divided from them ended up in the skin - that's very random.
So how do a few male cats end up with tortie markings? There are 3 potential causes:
1 - XXY Klinefelter syndrome - yes this is a thing in cats, and rarely a cat appears to be physically male but with an extra X chromosome - the X chromosone switchoff mechanic works the same in these cats in the early embryonic stage, so they can display tortie markings. They are usually infertile, but otherwise nothing wrong.
2 - Chimerism - this occurs when 2 different embryos (we're talking small cell clusters, not formed recognisable kittens) fuse together in the womb - if 1 embryo has the MCR1 gene and the other does not and the resulting kitten is male, it will be a male with tortie markings. They may or may not be fertile, it varies. If fertile and bred from, they can potentially produce kittens that would be expected from both MCR1 and non MCR1 pairings, it depends upon the individual.
3 - Birthmarks - yes it can be that simple
LOL, appreciate the reply even more then!
Cannot <3 this post enough, fanks
(Pretty sure you've told me some of this before, but I have a godawful memory. Which means we can look forward to you telling me again at some point
)Yep, that was my understanding of Tortie point, knew they were talking shite .also, LOL at Siamese, blue self ... what now?!
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
xsunnysuex
Life is a horizontal fall.
xsunnysuex
Life is a horizontal fall.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
I had a lovely dream last night about kittens. They were both black and white and got in bed with me for a cuddle, purring loudly. I didn't want to wake up.
