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YearZero Magazine: New York New Era

An article which was written by an American who has managed to get past the media/political hype that this atrocity happened regardless of anything that America has done!

It seems so many Americans are keen to see someone (anyone) bombed as retaliation, even though there is no proof who did it, or why.

Perhaps you could somehow explain to me how America became so pure, and how it has been targetted by mistake....... but perhaps you can't.

The deaths of Americans are as regrettable as the deaths of so many others at the the hands of America and it's dubious foreign policies. Grown up people like to think about all aspects of a debate. Years of education has taught us that gut instinct is not always worth following, and that sometimes there are other factors to take into consideration.

Do you want that little Afghani girl to get bombed on her way to school. Would that make you proud of America?
 
>>>Perhaps you could somehow explain to me how America became so pure, and how it has been targetted by mistake.......

Did you not read the bit where I said that I believe ALL nations to be guilty of some sort of attrocity? America has done a lot of bad things, Britain has done even more, and other nations around the world have done more still. The problem is, even when America tries to do what it thinks is the right thing, it still upsets people. Even when America tried sticking to its own affairs and letting the world take care of itself, it found itself in trouble.

I don't know what gave you the impression that I'm in favour of bombing Afghanistan or any country by way of revenge. I'm not. But what I or anybody else wants is irrelevant. America will take revenge. The cycle will continue.
 
I'm in a frame of mind right now which is inclined to believe that might IS right because that the best thing you can hope to achieve as a nation is the protection of your own people, and to hell with everybody else.

That pretty much did it for me!
 
To defend your own borders. Leave other nations to settle their own squabbles, thereby avoiding the possibility of upsetting the kind of militants who hit the WTC.
 
And if America hadn't been shitting on most of the rest of the world for so long, I'd say you had a point!

OK to ignore others borders but not OK if they cross yours?

Ameria has already upset those militants - and now you're in "the frame of mind" to think they have a duty to do it again?

:confused:
 
To defend your own borders. Leave other nations to settle their own squabbles, thereby avoiding the possibility of upsetting the kind of militants who hit the WTC.

All very well to let other people get on with their own disputes. But in order to do that, America would need to stop all trade with other countries and withdraw all their production to America. Nah. Not going to happen. Couldn't happen. It's not just the fact that America meddles politically, but that it exploits commercially.

What you are saying could be likened to sticking your fingers in your ears any shouting "I'm not listening", and expecting everone else to be alright with that. I can't see you, so you can't see me. Stupid.
 
This is getting derailed from Adam's original posting, which is spot on, and shares what I would want to say about it.

might IS right because that the best thing you can hope to achieve as a nation is the protection of your own people, and to hell with everybody else

I think MrLancey suffers from a deep-seated distrust of human nature - which I think is going to be shared by a lot of people who are rightly disgusted by the wtc/pentagon attack and the thought of anybody, anywhere celebrating the loss of life - and we've got to rise above that distrust, which always leads you to authoritarian responses.

Getting bombed like this is a RESULT of trying to shut yourself away from the world, the result of looking for military solutions to human problems. However, i think MrLancey is prob closer to 'public opinion', certainly at the moment, and full respect to someone posting against the grain. His viewpoint needs exploring and understanding, not flaming.

where I work (a london college) there's already tension, there's already anti-muslim sentiment, even from some teachers, and we have the fear that the bnp - always strong in our area (bermondsey) - will attempt to capitalise on that mood. Blair is clearly preparing public opinion for military retaliation, which needs opposing.

we've got urgent business here.
 
>>OK to ignore others borders but not OK if they cross yours?

Sure, why not? When America has got involved with other conflicts it's been accused of trying to enforce its own will upon the rest of the world. So by saying "Your business is your busines, so long as you don't attack our nation we won't get involved in your affairs." America avoids shitting on the rest of the world. A return to the policy of isolationism as implemented in the early part of the last century. Of course, that leads to problems itself, but anything's better than having people blow up your citizens because they feel you have no right to get involved with their affairs.
 
Thanks Adam - one of the few posts on this subject that really engaged. I hope you don't mind me keeping that to read to others. I'm sure you don't.
 
Top post, Adam. The same can't be said for Lancery here, unfortunately.
 
Adam's piece is on our site too
http://www.ammocity.com

and has attracted a lot of negative criticism (including death threats) on our message board. it's good to see some people accepting it in the spirit in which it is meant. This isn't intended as a marketing message, just a request that some of you could help to contribute to a more intelligent debate on the subject to avoid the jerking of many knees and rampant xenophobia that's engulfing us in a tide of nonsense.

Thanx for your time, respect Urban 75.

Chris Blenkarn
 
I get the impression that I'd like ammocity if it wasn't such hard work. i'm on a fast connection and it all takes soooo long to render. Main-body text in flash!?

I could wait the half a minute it takes to load up each message to get a good impression of what was being said on the boards, sorry.

Adam - excellent piece!
 
you should have seen how happy my mother was when she heard what happened. she put my Che Guevara shirt on the wall. i can understand why people hate the american bosses so much, but most of the people killed were not responsible for the bombings on Iraq, Serbia and everywhere else. many of the victims must have been communists and anarchists who were fighting against americas imperialistic politics.

i don't think my mother would be so happy if i had gone DJing in NewYork and got killed.
 
Misterlancey..
You are missing the point that many are making here!!! no one wants to see death or distruction visited on any nation or individual..
However, there is no doubt what so ever that the policies and methodology of those charged with fulfilling American foreign policy ( over the last number of decades )are directly responsible for the attacks upon your fellow countrymen.
In general your fellow country men(and women)could not care one iota about what is being carried out in their name by their government.In fact their lack of political education (esp on foreign policy aspects) as to regards what is going on elsewhere on the planet has contributed to a governing culture which has seen fit to do as it dam well pleases..safe in the knowledge that any retribution will be confined to others shores.
That time is now passed.
The sheer hypocracy of those clambering to proclaim such virtues as those of " freedom and democracy" while at the same time expressing a thirst for revenge on what will undoubtabily be other innocents knows no bounds.
Would this be the same "land of the free" that give us the Contras..that had president Allende of Chile mudered.that perfected the art of political assisination of its overseas opponents.
If anything positive is to come from this tradegy then perhaps it will manifest itself in a greater % of the U.S.population taking an interest in what is being done in its name over sea`s in the sure knowledge that the idea of " fortress America" is once and for all gone for good.
 
I'm with Brew Re; AmmoCity. It's a great looking site, but all that eye candy comes at a hefty price when it comes to functionality. Squinting at the teensy weensy blurry text box on the forums and having to click each post individually is a nightmare of aesthetics.

Mind you, I liked the amusing noises in the chat room, even if there was no one there.
 
Interesting series of posts. America the evil because they defend their point of view. Last time I checked, Vietnam and Iraq were wars. The warring states of Yugoslavia were slaughtering each other and ethnically "cleansing" their regions of unpopular minorities. Iraq savaged their southern neighbors and crush the Kurds. It was only the British and Americans who went in force. Yes, you can say Vietnam was a tragedy, but I would think the same could be said about the reeducation camps that were established to house the south Vietnamese. Yes, the United States defends its values, and went into France in WWI to defend Europe against German aggression, defended europe again against the same germans only years later. Yes, we fought the Japanese (can you remember the rape of Nanking?). Yes, the United States stood up against the Soviet Union and spent trillions of dollars in Europe to rebuild and defend their former enemies.
Reading these posts is disheartening. The posts seem to forget what life would have been like under the 1000 year Reich or as a guest of the gulag. Do you really think that any of your posts would have been tolerated during Stalin or Hitler? Yet you compare the US to the Nazis.
I am former military in the US, and proud to serve my country, proud to defend Western culture and values. Too bad so many of you have forgotten your history and culture.
 
American

You forget history too!

Are Bin Laden, Saddam and Noriega not graduates of American sponsored programmes?

Were they not part of a policy of America not merely defending it's values, but imposingthem on other parts of the world.

Yes, many terrible things have been perpetrated against peoples of the Third World, by people of the Third World, and is it not the case that many of the underlying causes of those conflicts have their roots in Imperialism or Colonialism?

How is bombing human beings in Afghanistan going to help anyone? If your values are Christian, is this what your Christ would have advocated?

We all share the sense of tragedy that America has suffered - but we want it to stop. We do not want to see the start of a cycle of violence. We do not want to see an attack on democratic rights and freedoms as a result of this. We want to see America bring those who are truly responsible to justice but that justice must be consistent with the democracy and freedom of which your President is so proud, and which he says has been attacked. We want to see America become a good neighbour and a responsible member of the World community. We understand your anger and I hope that you can get past that and look at the situation in a calm, rational manner before more damage and atrocities take place.
 
Mister American,

Welcome. I'd love to know what this identification with your country feels like.

I'm English, living in Britain. I can't like what the British empire did, nor the slave trade, nor what it continues to do in northern ireland...

Part of your own tradition rejected loyalty to the British crown in the same way I would now, myself. Could you imagine feeling that way towards your own gov.t, because of what it does around the globe?

Is it part of 'our nation' to bomb Iraq, or sanction Iraq and Afghanistan back into miserable, desease-ridden, starving places? Did you agree with 'them' sending in the Contras, as the thugs hacked and raped themselves through into Nicaragua to topple an elected gov't? Can you see the gov.t as something outside of yourself?

Both our gov.ts are part of the gang of G8 that rig an already oppressive system to their needs, while ignoring the starving, the dying in every corner of the globe.

Do you like 'your' companies landing and setting up cancers of slave-factories around the globe?

But I don't think you'll still be around. Perhaps the typical Brit 'gentleman' of the C19th would be equally blind towards the naked terror of the empire he helped staff? It's your empire, it's the hill from which you look down at the rest of the world from, the electric fence you look over.

Sorry. I am upset about the bombings and what they mean to those many people up and down those twin towers, and to those working in the Pentagon. It's a bad time for jingoistic tub thumping, because the real thing is guaranteed. Please don't urge 'your' gov.t on to violence. However hurt you are, don't lash out at yet more innocents somewhere else in the world community of people.

:confused:

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: bruise, cos i didn't see the second page, ]
:eek:

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: bruise ]
 
you're proud of you're country mister American. your prowd of your government destroying a whole city (Hiroshima) just to test it's new toy (atom bomb). you're prowd of your country setting up a dictatorship (Hussein in Iraq) giving it orders to start war on a country (Iran). you're prowd of your country commiting genocide on a whole nation (Iraq) in the name of piece. apart from the thousands/millions killed, Iraq has been poluted with the Uranium of the US bombs. Uranium is radiactive for 4billion years. maybe in 4billion years -if earth still exists- it will be a healthy place again.
 
to be honest, i'm not sure 'American' is a person. It doesn't feel like an individual. D'you think a committee posted that up?

Perhaps that's just what r-wing americans are like - no individuality (in spite of their worship of individuality).

Is he real... will he resurface... watch this space!
 
Adam your article is excellent. Respect!
I'm currently travelling in Asia, the only TV coverage we get is the Cancer News Network declaring "America's New War" - read "America's New Justification for vast military expenditure and bombing more innocent people".
How many innocent people must die to justify a few madman's obseessions with death and destructin, while tightening their grip on the planet in the pursuit of geopolitical imperialism?
Bin Laden IS a nut who has orchestrated mass murder, as are all our leaders.
I remember when Libya was "justifyably" bombed in the 80s by the US, and there were many innocents who died. Many of the planes were mustered for the attack from Laken Heath Airbase in England. After this the compassionate US Air Force printed up stickers with a photo of an F-111 with LIBYA - Laken Heath Is Bombing Your Ass. I see no more wisdom coming out of Bush's mouth at the moment, nor do expect to see any more enlightened views in the future.
As for not worrying about what goes on outside your own borders, well the problem here is that the USA thinks it owns the world, so it has no borders, only the right to bomb who it wants without any problems. In fact under the Monroe Doctrine, the US has the constitutional right to invade and attack any nation it wants to, just because it wants to. But it is the decades of these actions that have brought the pigeons home to roost.
We all have a part to play. Apathy or gung-ho flag waving, queing up to die for patriotic ideals, are equally as bad in their effect of not changing the situation, by not offering anything constructive. Action is not ticking a box on election day, or backing your country to the hilt, no matter what the consequences are. We need to constructively dismantle the military and state apparatuses that continue this macabre state of affairs.
As an article by a Czech anarchist group on the WOMBLES website states: "No innocent civillians ever deserve to die for, or because of, their country." To right. However, it will only be the blood of innocent men, women and children that stains the streets, while the terrorit/state-terrorist leaders live in comfort and safety, watching the development of a new military infrastructure as a new cold war against Islam is born.
It's interesting that American's don't seem to care about their publically-funded war going on in Colombia. One person is displaced every two minutes, while fourteen people are killed or fall victim to politcal violence everyday. Most of this is carried out by the UAC United Civillian Denfnce Group of Colombia. headed by the facistic Carlos Castano. These right-wing death squads were originally funded and trained by the CIA (no surprise there), a process concieved by the Golden Boy of US politics, JFK. Plan Colombia, the US War on Drugs which is more about building a Pacific-to-Carribean Canal, expropriating land for AL Gore's family firm Oxy Petroleum, and destroying all social movements. Clinton waived the constitutional responsibility to ensure Colombia respected human rights, because of the threat that drugs pose on American society. Then-Secretary of State, Madeline Allbright said that the AUC - which ties people to trees and chainsaws them to pieces, disembowels pregnant mothers, forces children to play football with their loved ones freshly decapitated heads, to name a fgew of its tactics - could not be termed a terrorist group as it had never attacked US soil, as such it could even recieve funding from Washington.
Sorry if this is a tangent, but i think it's just one, of many, examples of how the US carries out foreign policy, to hell with anyone else.
By the way, if you want to see some really scaring, plus some intelligent postings in this subject. Check out the Terrorist Attack on America section at http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com
Love and rage, mr whippy.
 
Britnics....sorry we can't offer y'all the perfection you (and the rest of the world)deserve. Now if you'll pardon me, I must get back to expoiting the world's resources and planning the accidental deaths of more innocents.
 
Too bad so many of you have forgotten your history and culture.

Oh, like your history and culture is so superior... one which killed thousands of members of the indiginous population. Then herded the remainder onto inaccessible "reservations"????


:mad:


P.S. Nice post Adam, spot on.
 
So many things to say, So Many things to feel during this hour of turmoil. I donot believe that me own personal perceptions would be well placed here. However, I shall share with thee, those things which have helped I to find me own personal Balance within this Time of 'Attack'. Mayhaps it shall aid thee with thy own personal understanding's. If nothing else, it shall add one more view to be disputed upon.

I KNOW our government. I Know much of this "Great Nation" of our's. And what I know saddens I. Most of the time I find this knowledge to be of great dis-appointment unto I. So WHY ?? - that when this Attack came upon our nation....The Only Thing I could think of, was How Wounded I felt as an American. How ANgery I was at self for not being better prepared or remaining within that "Structure" so I could now stand with those brothers and fight back against this Threat to our nation.
And I, like many of you, listen to the media reports. Considered past history's of our Nation & that of others, and thought & felt many of the things, many of you have shared here. Then I realized EXACTLY Why, I hold such a Great respect for this Nation. This Nation, in spite of all of it's mis-giving's.
I Believe VERY Strongly in the Human Spirit. In OUR own Individual Potential as Human Being's. What we EACH are capable of, and what sort of future lies within our own personal developement & evolution. And this Country/This NATION be the ONLY Nation on the Face of this planet that Truly allows us, in-fact by it's own mis-giving's, challenges us to Reach that Higher Level of self advancement. This be the reason I am so Thankful for this Country/ this Nation of ours. Not too mention why I feel so Honor bound to help Protect it. Or mayhaps in this case - Preserve it. As for anything else that could be said upon this subject, well That would have to do with the People their selves. So far, the Best one I have heard speak for that of the people, would be a man that APPARENTLY Knows his people well. A Very POWERFUL Message written by this man, can be found at the following address. (Completely new to this stuff, so shall just provide my w4eb page where I have posted the article.)
Agree with, find understanding within, Laugh at, or dis-agree with me own rambling's here. I care not. But ye really should read the message written by L.Pitts, of which I have posted at http://angelfire.com/mb/Kiawanna/TheMessage.html. Blessing's be with you All. May the terror that struck our Nation, NEVER Arrive upon thy door step.
 
Kiawanna,

Not only is your post written in some bizarre pseudo-Elizabethan English, but your link is busted.
 
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