WTF! Look what they've done to the Coach & Horses/Living Bar

[tarannau]

I've only been in South Beach twice and it was fairly empty. Admittedly it was recently relaunched (with the usual Choice FM djs) and I haven't been since. It looks a little busier recently, at least going on my occasional visits to the bar opposite.

White Horse had a licence till 3 when it first reopened. It is busier and perhaps there are more people outside - the perils of the smoking ban - but it certainly is small fry compared to the how the footfall to the George and Telegraph used to be.

I used to live on Fairmount Road 10 years ago Timothy fwiw, not miles from you - I suspect you're suffering rose tinted memories and nimbyism again.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

The old Helter Skelter/Tongue and Groove on Atlantic Road has gone forever: it's now a pawnbrokers.

well b4 it was a shag / drug broker

 

[teuchter]

I've only been in South Beach twice and it was fairly empty. Admittedly it was recently relaunched (with the usual Choice FM djs) and I haven't been since. It looks a little busier recently, at least going on my occasional visits to the bar opposite.

White Horse had a licence till 3 when it first reopened. It is busier and perhaps there are more people outside - the perils of the smoking ban - but it certainly is small fry compared to the how the footfall to the George and Telegraph used to be.

I used to live on Fairmount Road 10 years ago Timothy fwiw, not miles from you - I suspect you're suffering rose tinted memories and nimbyism again.

South Beach is without doubt busier than it was previously. It seems a significant proportion of its clientele arrive by car, and those cars are parked in the residential streets nearby. I have been thinking recently that it's inevitable there are going to be complaints. Like I say it doesn't bother me but I think people living nearby have legitimate reason to object.

 

[tarannau]

Jesus, if residents going to complain about parked cars, then you'd suspect the nearby Ruach ministry was far more of a problem. Much greater capacity and a far greater tendency to pack out every available parking space for hours on end ime.

 

[teuchter]

I wasn't aware that the Ruach ministry held services in the small hours.

It's not the parked cars themselves - it's the associated coming and going that I can imagine annoying people.

 

[tarannau]

See earlier complaints of slamming car doors, clip-clopping heels, double parking and similar about the Ruach on previous threads. Both early and later weekend services as well ime.

South Beach is far from a big venue and I seriously doubt that it massively effects the local area, especially given precedents of much busier venues of the past, including the nearby George IV, Telegraph, Mass and Fridge. All of those are a pale shadow of what they used to be 10 years ago, although thankfully the Fridge seems to be turning the ship around slightly.

 

[timothysutton1]

... South Beach ... I seriously doubt that it massively effects the local area ...

Tell that to the residents who are regularly woken up every weekend by punters shouting in the street and banging their car doors.
I see the Coach and Horses closing as a worrying trend towards late night pubs and clubs opening in residential areas because of easier parking for their customers. This is done with little regard for the local community and limited interference from Lambeth Council.

 

[teuchter]

Yes but the George and the Telegraph have/had been extant as late-night venues for yonks (and I don't think attracted car-driving clientele on the whole). The Fridge and Mass are in central Brixton where one can only expect activity at night.

The same can't be said about South Beach. Significant amounts of cars and people late at night on nearby residential streets is a New Thing.

It's not something that bothers me, but I can imagine someone living on the relevant bits of Arodene Rd thinking that they didn't expect to be living beside a nightclub carpark when they moved there 10, 5, 3 or even 1 year ago.

 

[tarannau]

What other examples of this trend are there then locally Timothy? As far as I can tell licencing restrictions for most of the late night venues near residential areas have got far more restrictive - take the George IV and The Telegraph for example, which no longer open anywhere near the 4-6am hours they were renowned for. See also what's happened to the DofE and numerous others.

Frankly I think you're talking more unbalanced nimby and council score-settling toss wrapped up in alarmist, fact free tones. However, feel free to give those examples.

 

[timothysutton1]

Cut the insults please.

 

[teuchter]

Has the demise of the George and the Telegraph been brought about by increased licensing restrictions, though? I had the impression that it's been more to do with imcompetent management/changes in demand.

My impression is that the White Horse is livelier at the weekend now than it was 5+ years ago and open later more often too. (For the record, I think this is a good thing)

 

[tarannau]

Where are the examples of this trend then Timothy?

Honestly, insults are one thing, but hysterical inaccuracies and made-up trends are perhaps more pernicious

 

[tarannau]

Teuchter - both the George and Telegraph suffered police crackdowns, with the former having to accept some onerous licensing conditions after one stabbing that essentially made it impossible to open as a late night club venue - reduced hours, heavy bouncer presence at all times etc. The Telegraph was mismanaged, but also their licence has been cut (12/1am) to levels which make it hard to see it ever reopening in anywhere near the same format. A real shame for a place which once played host to Rooty and numerous top nights. I also suspect that SouthSide is struggling to stay afloat, which is some change for a place that was one of Brixton's most consistent late night venues for many a year

The White Horse has got busier imo, but it's far from a large or particularly late opening bar. Same goes for South Beach imo, although at least they're trying something different on the hill with their clientele.

 

[timothysutton1]

... examples of this trend ...

When I moved to this part of Brixton back in the late 1980's there were local pubs, but none had regular late night licences. Now there are four within 5 minutes walk. After hours drinking was in Brixton town centre.

 

[tarannau]

Some serious goalpost moving there Timothy. So we're not going back the 10 years that you talked about earlier, not even 20 years. But now you think going back nigh on 30 years ago helps prove your case and provide an indication of trends and ' a general indication of how out of control Lambeth Council are'.

Clearly you're making this up as you go along. The whiff of desperation is palpable. I've rarely seen someone so severely bend facts and attempt to distort the past so much to suit their agenda of self interest. It's something you're prone to do ime, not least on another thread where you opposed a development close to your road with some bizarre logic.

FWIW I was here 30 years ago too and I wouldn't swap the grimy pubs and their rough clientele of that period for the late night crowd in a million sundays. It certainly wasn't some gentle, peaceful idyll back then either.

 

[timothysutton1]

...It wasn't some gentle, peaceful idyll back then...

Perhaps it wasn't, but keeping the entertainment industry in the town centre seemed to make more sense... which is the point I am trying to make.

 

[tarannau]

A point somewhat obscured by you talking of 'trends' and implying things about a conspiratorial council out of control.

You see what I mean about misrepresentation and you playing the nimby game? The whiff of dishonesty and score-settling politics gets right on my tits.

 

[twistedAM]

A point somewhat obscured by you talking of 'trends' and implying things about a conspiratorial council out of control.

You see what I mean about misrepresentation and you playing the nimby game? The whiff of dishonesty and score-settling politics gets right on my tits.

Maybe we should just gate that street off and let them have a private security firm.

 

[timothysutton1]

... council out of control ... nimby game ...

I think it more sensible for late night pubs/clubs to be in the town centre away from residential areas, and I think the council should be doing something about this. That's my opinion and sorry about your tits.

 

[tarannau]

So really Tim, despite all the dark talk of trends and council conspiracies this basically comes down to you saying 'not near me' and acting quite the stereotyped, out of proportion NIMBY once again. What a bleeding surprise eh?

 

[colacubes]

I think it more sensible for late night pubs/clubs to be in the town centre away from residential areas, and I think the council should be doing something about this. That's my opinion and sorry about your tits.

The town centre is a residential area too.

 

[twistedAM]

The town centre is a residential area too.

It is innit. Residential flats above shops and down every sidestreet...a lot further away from the madding crowd than say a soon-to-be-tree-lined that's already blocked off on one side by an unused bicycle park.

This country is going crazy. My neighbour asked me if it was possible to be quiet after 10 o'clock (ie no doors, toilet flushing, running bath etc). I don't usually get in from work til after midnight so asked her if she'd respect my privacy and not get up til ten in the morning so i don't have to listen to her ablutions.

 

[teuchter]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if you choose to live above Coldharbour lane or the High street, you do so in the knowledge that it is not going to be very quiet on weekend nights (or at any time for that matter). Whereas if you choose to live on one of the streets off Brixton Hill, your expectations are slightly different.

The activity related to South Beach late at night is a new thing (as in, the last few months or so). I have noticed it because I regularly walk past (and up Arodene Rd/Helix Gardens etc) after midnight on the weekend. I don't really know how much disturbance it actually causes because I don't live in one of the houses just there. All I know is that there are cars driving up and down / turning around in the street/ sitting with engines running/headlights on, and a fair number of people coming and going too. It may be that really the level of disturbance is fairly mild but you can't necessarily write off any complaints as NIMBYism or equate it with objecting to toilets being flushed after 10pm.

 

[colacubes]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if you choose to live above Coldharbour lane or the High street, you do so in the knowledge that it is not going to be very quiet on weekend nights (or at any time for that matter). Whereas if you choose to live on one of the streets off Brixton Hill, your expectations are slightly different.

I couldn't agree more as one such resident. Just pointing out that there are residents in the Town Centre too (probably a lot more than people think) and although we expect and are perhaps more tolerant of noise, it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of too many late night licensed premises by keeping them all in that area. Although we should expect more noise we do also have the same right to quiet enjoyment as those who live down the hill.

 

[twistedAM]

It may be that really the level of disturbance is fairly mild but you can't necessarily write off any complaints as NIMBYism or equate it with objecting to toilets being flushed after 10pm.

True. If the cops had a roving breathalyser unit in the area I think they'd soon quell the amount of traffic.

i used to drive past a nearby bar and wondered about all the expensive cars parked outside and can't really believe that none of those people go into a bar after midnight and don't have a drink.

 

[teuchter]

True. If the cops had a roving breathalyser unit in the area I think they'd soon quell the amount of traffic.

i used to drive past a nearby bar and wondered about all the expensive cars parked outside and can't really believe that none of those people go into a bar after midnight and don't have a drink.

Or make it paid parking and set the traffic wardens on them. That could be entertaining. Doing a bit of wheelclamping would liven things up too.

 

[twistedAM]

Or make it paid parking and set the traffic wardens on them. That could be entertaining. Doing a bit of wheelclamping would liven things up too.

I bet you'd find there's quite a few parked on double yellow lines anyway and clamping is more fun than ticketing

 

[teuchter]

Getting back to the subject of the thread:

Has there been any follow-up on this, then?

I walked past earlier today and the signage looked pretty much the same as in Editor's photo in the OP.

The only difference seems to be that the two big signs above the awning may have been lowered slightly. The reason I noticed this was that I noticed that the windowsill to the bay window in the middle of the 1st floor storey has been trashed (as in, half the windowsill knocked off the front). Are there any photos showing the frontage before the signage was put up? Because maybe I am jumping to conclusions but I can't help wondering whether that bit of windowsill was knocked off to allow the sign to sit in front of it, in the hope that no-one would ever notice until the sign was taken down.

Looking more closely it's quite clear that various fixings (for electrical conduit, a timber baton and other things) have been made straight through the green glazed tiles which must be part of the original shopfront and are fairly much irreplaceable (or at least, only rather expensively). It was dark so I couldn't really see much further up but I bet other bits of the frontage have been damaged.

I don't think that Lambeth should be allowed to just brush this off and say it complies... as per Lang Rabbie's link earlier it quite clearly doesn't and they obviously just can't be bothered.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

well given the emails we, editor and others received from the council, it appears the council think the matter is closed. IIRC they asked the owners to reposition the sign, but i cant see any difference.

there's a 'before' photo here.


(i've got before/after pictures on my phone but i cant get the photos off the phone because the software that came with it doesn't work on windows vista )

 

[editor]

well given the emails we, editor and others received from the council, it appears the council think the matter is closed. IIRC they asked the owners to reposition the sign, but i cant see any difference.

there's a 'before' photo here.


(i've got before/after pictures on my phone but i cant get the photos off the phone because the software that came with it doesn't work on windows vista )

That doesn't work.

Here's my 'before' pic: