Would you report people to the police for for breaking the conditions of the Covid 19 lockdown

[tim]

TheBritish government and police forces with the support of some parts of the media are encouraging people to report those they think are breaking the lockdown. I wouldn't contact the authorities about the behaviour of others that wasn't either intimidatory or violent. I don't want to live in a society with a morality police or one in which citizens are expected to inform on their neighbours. I'm appalled at these films of police threatening people for sunbathing or sitting on benches even when clearly socially distanced.

How to report Derbyshire people to police for breaching lockdown rules

 

[SpookyFrank]

Police are scum, I wouldn't set them on my worst enemy.

 

[Looby]

No. I can’t really think of an instance when I would. Tbh I wouldn’t really know unless they’re putting it on Facebook because I’m not going out.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I'm kinda in two minds. I normally think of the police as a rather large hammer not really the best option except in the most drastic of cases. I wouldn't call them on individuals out and about enjoying some space but I do think I might want to call someone if I knew about a group of people doing regular group meetups. Police still sound like a poor option though.

 

[Yossarian]

Not if ordinary people were involved, but I'd be tempted if it was a member of the government.

 

[muscovyduck]

Not in my current situation. If I was on the big risk list and had a housemate who kept inviting the local supermarket workers over for tea or something I probably would

 

[Epona]

No, but that isn't to say I am ok with people out and about right now flouting what we need to do to end this epidemic. I feel as if some people don't understand the way it works. If the virus can live for 2 to 3 weeks at most on surfaces and with what is known currently about incubation and infectious periods then what we all need to do without any exceptions or mitigating circumstances is stay the fuck indoors for 1 month without going to the beach, or on a walk, or bringing kids to see their other co-parent, or going out for an hour of exercise, or to the shops, then that would end the fucking thing in a month because it wouldn't be able to spread.

I don't want to live in a police state though, I'd rather people stopped fucking whining about going to the park and sat in their god-damn fucking house for a month. I worked in epidemiology in animal health and we used to use 10km no-movement zones (that is anything within 10km of an outbreak is not allowed to move from where it is currently, not you are ok to move within that 10km) and a 3km cull zone around any identified case. The latter would clearly be unethical, but ffs please self impose a no-movement order on your fucking selves until this is over and we will all get through it quicker and with fewer deaths.

 

[dessiato]

I said yes but it isn't a black and white situation. It would depend on exactly how they were breaking the rules. For example, a man I know lives in the Highlands ands takes long walks with his dogs. I'm not sure that his is acceptable but I know that there are very few people or roads there.

This weekend he is going to drive for about an hour to Aberdeen where his 99 year old father lives. He is independent, as far as a 99 year old living in a home can be. As much as I can understand wanting to visit your father, this is a step too far. I think that the risk of taking CV into the home and spreading it to the elderly and vulnerable there is too much.

But it's not a clear case of to report or nothe. In the above two scenarios I probably wouldn't report.

I would report people having a party with lots of friends visiting. I would report a group of people meeting up on, say, an allotment to sit around eating and drinking. One person working on their allotment is quite different to having the whole family on there, with friends. (My sister did this, I don't think it is acceptable.)

It's all very grey.

 

[Griff]

Police are scum, I wouldn't set them on my worst enemy.

Let's hope you don't need them if you get robbed, beaten up, raped or any other shit happens to you or your family.

Fucking idiot, you sound like some ridiculous juvenile parody.

Christ!

 

[Wilf]

I wouldn't grass anyone, it just goes against the grain. Anyway, reporting systems like this tend to attract curtain twitchers and people wanting to moan about their neighbours going out for a walk twice in a day, not the real fuckers who have made this whole virus worse in the UK (inc. the fucker who is currently 'sitting up' in ICU).

 

[Epona]

I said yes but it isn't a black and white situation. It would depend on exactly how they were breaking the rules. For example, a man I know lives in the Highlands ands takes long walks with his dogs. I'm not sure that his is acceptable but I know that there are very few people or roads there.

This weekend he is going to drive for about an hour to Aberdeen where his 99 year old father lives. He is independent, as far as a 99 year old living in a home can be. As much as I can understand wanting to visit your father, this is a step too far. I think that the risk of taking CV into the home and spreading it to the elderly and vulnerable there is too much.

But it's not a clear case of to report or nothe. In the above two scenarios I probably wouldn't report.

I would report people having a party with lots of friends visiting. I would report a group of people meeting up on, say, an allotment to sit around eating and drinking. One person working on their allotment is quite different to having the whole family on there, with friends. (My sister did this, I don't think it is acceptable.)

It's all very grey.

Actually in an epidemic control sense, those who want to go for a walk in an area where they are "sure" not to meet anyone else is not that different to the pet pig owner who thinks it is ok to take their pet pig for a walk during an outbreak of swine fever as "it's not like I go near any pig farms".

It's an incorrect and very individualistic way of looking at the situation.

 

[Griff]

In answer to the question, no.

 

[editor]

I'd only ever shop someone if they were seriously putting vulnerable people at high risk by their actions. But a load of people sunbathing or having a party? Nope. Never.

 

[scifisam]

Not unless it was a really egregious example - can't think of anything right now but I'm sure there's something. I'd be tempted to report if I saw someone spitting, but that's mainly because it's such a disgusting thing to do anyway.

Actually in an epidemic control sense, those who want to go for a walk in an area where they are "sure" not to meet anyone else is not that different to the pet pig owner who thinks it is ok to take their pet pig for a walk during an outbreak of swine fever as "it's not like I go near any pig farms".

It's an incorrect and very individualistic way of looking at the situation.

But there are some areas where people really are sure not to meet someone. Danny said his friends lives where there are very few people or even roads.

Also if someone did have a pet pig and wanted to take it for a walk (slightly weird example to be honest!) then actually it would make a very big difference if they weren't taking it near other pigs. In fact if they weren't near any other pigs the pig wouldn't be able to catch swine fever ever. I must be missing something.

 

[keybored]

TheBritish government and police forces with the support of some parts of the media are encouraging people to report those they think are breaking the lockdown. I wouldn't contact the authorities about the behaviour of others that wasn't either intimidatory or violent. I don't want to live in a society with a morality police or one in which citizens are expected to inform on their neighbours. I'm appalled at these films of police threatening people for sunbathing or sitting on benches even when clearly socially distanced.

How to report Derbyshire people to police for breaching lockdown rules

Derbyshire Constabulary again? They seem hell-bent on making themselves look like the worst of a bad bunch throughout all this.

 

[Epona]

Not unless it was a really egregious example - can't think of anything right now but I'm sure there's something. I'd be tempted to report if I saw someone spitting, but that's mainly because it's such a disgusting thing to do anyway.



But there are some areas where people really are sure not to meet someone. Danny said his friends lives where there are very few people or even roads.

Also if someone did have a pet pig and wanted to take it for a walk (slightly weird example to be honest!) then actually it would make a very big difference if they weren't taking it near other pigs. In fact if they weren't near any other pigs the pig wouldn't be able to catch swine fever ever. I must be missing something.

Not a weird example, I was using my experience working on the swine fever epidemic as a for instance, people taking pigs for walks was referring to peoples' selfish response and thinking that controls didn't apply to them during that livestock epidemic. In terms of this current or indeed any epidemic, unless you track everywhere you have been and monitor it constantly to know the weekly/monthly footfall you cannot know for sure that no-one goes there - I doubt in the UK there is anywhere that isn't private property that absolutely no-one goes ever except for the one special person who has discovered it and walks alone there (Haha ). They can't actually confirm that no-one is going to walk that route the next day and put their hand on a tree that they coughed on. Yes it is less likely than in an urban situation, but it cannot be entirely ruled out. Pigs are not allowed to be taken for walks in the woods either during a swine fever outbreak, even if there are no other pigs nearby.

 

[Epona]

Sorry, I don't come on here with the intent of upsetting anyone or causing an argument - but I have worked in epidemiology and I see these discussions going on and it's like no-one is fucking doing this thing properly - we have a half-hearted lockdown where people think it's still ok to go out for a hundred different reasons (things we all justify to ourselves as "essential" but only because we see essential as things that minimise disruption to our own lives, NOT life or death matters) - it's the government's fault for being half-arsed about saying what is ok and what isn't, and people are going to die as a result.

That doesn't mean I want the fucking police in charge of it.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I'd dust off a quadcopter and drop piss filled balloons on them.

 

[scifisam]

Somebody might come on the same road the next day and "touch a tree?" Now it's not even keeping two metres away, it's keeping several days away from invisible people who might go around touching trees? That really sounds over the top and just a tiny bit insane.

Desi was talking about a friend in the highlands in a place with few roads - yes, I do think that's a safe place to go for a walk. And pigs being taken for a walk in the woods is risky because of tick bites, but you didn't mention the location before - you're moving the goalposts.

I know you say you've worked in this area, but presumably you're not actually a qualified epidemiologist. I have a friend who is an actual expert in viral diseases (she's a senior lecturer in the topic at a good university) who agrees with allowing people to leave the house for occasional walks. Which has also been the advice in lots of countries that have dealt with the outbreak well. She hasn't said much about it in detail because, unsurprisingly, she's rather busy right now.

 

[Epona]

It's just don't go out, stay put for a month for the sake of the health of the nation.

The problem highlighted by people thinking their walk is ok is that everyone thinks they are somehow excluded from and above the restrictions. It can be someone going for a walk in the woods or it can be someone going out to get ice cream because it's a bit hot and they think that is essential to them.

I think the government guidelines are woolly and allow for too much personal interpretation - if anything has been proven here it is that people are happy to clap for the NHS whilst putting people at risk by being unclear what constitutes an essential shopping trip. Photos from woodland walks that our rural brethren are taking daily just muddy the issue further.

 

[scifisam]

"Just stay put for a month." Interesting use of the word "just."

Everyone's supposed to have food in for a month, I guess. Everybody has outside space for their kids to play in. Dogs don't need walking. Nobody has to go to work. And no other health problems exist now that coronavirus exists - mental health problems have all been wiped out.

I'll tell my epidemiologist friend that she's clearly not well informed enough, because someone I know on the internet disagrees with her.

BTW the current guidelines do say you're allowed out for a walk for exercise or to walk the dog, so when people do that, they're not claiming to be beyond the restrictions at all.

 

[tim]

Let's hope the police don't ask people to grass up those who don't go to bed at a reasonable hour, when they're on furlough.

 

[Epona]

"Just stay put for a month." Interesting use of the word "just."

Everyone's supposed to have food in for a month, I guess. Everybody has outside space for their kids to play in. Dogs don't need walking. Nobody has to go to work. And no other health problems exist now that coronavirus exists - mental health problems have all been wiped out.

I'll tell my epidemiologist friend that she's clearly not well informed enough, because someone I know on the internet disagrees with her.

BTW the current guidelines do say you're allowed out for a walk for exercise or to walk the dog, so when people do that, they're not claiming to be beyond the restrictions at all.

I think you are missing the entire point I am trying to make - why do some people absolutely insist on putting their foot down and insisting that their daily rural walks are necessary - you live where no-one can see you, just get on with it and stop rubbing our noses in it!!! It won't be you being arrested if the police are given extra powers, will it - it will be people who live in urban areas. You have a lot to say for someone who has a lot of woodland to escape to without anyone batting an eyelid. But people look to that and think therefore I want a daily walk wherever I like too. Maybe just stop boasting about it, I feel claustrophobic enough shut up in my inner city flat without being reminded constantly. I am being good and staying in, a bit of solidarity here please

(Seriously having people keep cropping up going on about worrying that their woodland walks might be restricted every time we're talking about lockdown is some sort of 'Rona version of "first world problems")

(EDIT: I should add that where I am, it just feels like we're battery chickens just locked up waiting to get sick. We don't feel very optimistic right now about the pandemic, about our chances if we get sick, about our chances of avoiding getting sick, or about our economic future, we already had issues as one of the poorest boroughs in London.)

 

[JimW]

You have a lot to say for someone who has a lot of woodland to escape to without anyone batting an eyelid.

You're mixing Sam up with a different poster here.

 

[Epona]

You're mixing Sam up with a different poster here.

EDIT: Sorry yeah I just looked back and saw I ballsed up who was talking about what. My apologies for that.

It doesn't invalidate my "cooped up like a battery chicken waiting to get ill while people are griping about worry that their woodland walks may be curtailed" (or words to that effect) comment though. Just aimed incorrectly, and I am sorry for that mistake.

 

[Mation]

Somebody might come on the same road the next day and "touch a tree?" Now it's not even keeping two metres away, it's keeping several days away from invisible people who might go around touching trees? That really sounds over the top and just a tiny bit insane.

Desi was talking about a friend in the highlands in a place with few roads - yes, I do think that's a safe place to go for a walk. And pigs being taken for a walk in the woods is risky because of tick bites, but you didn't mention the location before - you're moving the goalposts.

I know you say you've worked in this area, but presumably you're not actually a qualified epidemiologist. I have a friend who is an actual expert in viral diseases (she's a senior lecturer in the topic at a good university) who agrees with allowing people to leave the house for occasional walks. Which has also been the advice in lots of countries that have dealt with the outbreak well. She hasn't said much about it in detail because, unsurprisingly, she's rather busy right now.

Not really bringing out the best in you, this situation, is it.

 

[Poot]

I'm just going to put this out there: I'm getting fucking sick of all the judgement. It's the worst thing about this scenario that's not related to the illness itself. I'll happily put up with all the measures but if I have to put up with people wittering on about their neighbours 'going out in groups of three or four sometimes!' or the local farmers who are closing rights of way on their land (illegally) because 'it's not quite 2 metres wide' I'm going to totally lose my shit.

Leave people the fuck alone.

 

[Edie]

Let's hope you don't need them if you get robbed, beaten up, raped or any other shit happens to you or your family.

Fucking idiot, you sound like some ridiculous juvenile parody.

Christ!

He literally has no clue. He’s just simply never seen the work the police do in protecting the most vulnerable in society. Those with mental health issues, welfare checks, the drunk and incapacitated, the homeless on spice, the domestic violence victims, running MARAC, runaway kids, the elderly wandering with dementia, the injured in road traffic accidents, child protection both online paedophiles and offline rapists and beaters and neglect, trafficked women, modern slavery. And that’s before they get on to helping the victim of other crimes, robbery, burglary, rape, murder.

Our police officers stand on the front line of ALL of that. I see them at work a lot in my line of work. They see and hear things that SpookyFrank cannot imagine, cos he’s so naive he doesn’t think you need anyone there. They place themselves in danger routinely, and they’re placing themselves in danger now doing their jobs in the middle of a pandemic. Comments like Franks above are an embarrassment. Go back to sixth form college.

 

[dessiato]

(((All Urban urban dwellers)))

I'm coming to the end of week four, two to go. I live in a flat in the centre of the main street in the centre of the town. I go out only for shopping. We have had the army on the street. We have people dying from CV19. One in my block. Not to mention the others I know who have CV19 and the one I know who has died from it.

It really changes your perspective on whether or not to report those breaking the rules.

But as I said previously it's not black and white. And even here there are sometimes six or seven people chatting to each other outside the main door while they queue for the ATM. But we take it seriously, they are keeping their distance, are wearing gloves and masks.

Being Spanish doesn't stop the ability to hold conversations even at 2 metre distances.

 

[dessiato]

He literally has no clue. He’s just simply never seen the work the police do in protecting the most vulnerable in society. Those with mental health issues, welfare checks, the drunk and incapacitated, the homeless on spice, the domestic violence victims, running MARAC, runaway kids, the elderly wandering with dementia, the injured in road traffic accidents, child protection both online paedophiles and offline rapists and beaters and neglect, trafficked women, modern slavery. And that’s before they get on to helping the victim of other crimes, robbery, burglary, rape, murder.

Our police officers stand on the front line of ALL of that. I see them at work a lot in my line of work. They see and hear things that SpookyFrank cannot imagine, cos he’s so naive he doesn’t think you need anyone there. They place themselves in danger routinely, and they’re placing themselves in danger now doing their jobs in the middle of a pandemic. Comments like Franks above are an embarrassment. Go back to sixth form college.

I've worked with the police. There are some who are appallingly bad and should be locked up. I know this is true I have witnessed it.

But the majority of them are decent people doing a job I wouldn't want to do. The things they are put through and see are dreadful. Your description of their job is spot on.

As much as I distrust the police they do a difficult job. Usually they do it well.