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Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

Mentalist is unnecessary agreed. But I can easily see how mental health issues can have played a role here. To say that is not undermining the seriousness of the situation, nor is it letting the perpetrators off the hook.

They may have done. But the point I'm making is that most deeply illogical and troubling violence has nothing at all to do with mental illness and given that a/ there's currently no evidence of anyand b/ the guy gives his reasons, albeit fucked up ones I find it pretty dumb and prejudiced to assume it has to be the actions of someone unwell. Perfectly together people can be terrifying, that's the unsettling truth.
 
They may have done. But the point I'm making is that most deeply illogical and troubling violence has nothing at all to do with mental illness and given that a/ there's currently no evidence of anyand b/ the guy gives his reasons, albeit fucked up ones I find it pretty dumb and prejudiced to assume it has to be the actions of someone unwell. Perfectly together people can be terrifying, that's the unsettling truth.
Agreed. Wait and see as before.
 
PhotoShop!

Cut and paste in an old skool stylee actually.

War is horrific. Woolwich isn't quite so bad.

they didnt have photoshop in 1951

"In 1952, soon after being appointed High Commissioner, General Templer had said ‘the hard core of communists in this country are fanatics and must be, and will be, exterminated.’ That same year the Daily Worker carried a photo of a smiling Royal Marine commando in Malaya, holding the severed head of a dead guerrilla. Shortly after, a second photo was shown, with another marine holding two severed heads. The authorities claimed that heads and hands were taken from the bodies of ‘terrorists’ for identification purposes. But many soldiers regarded them as trophies, which showed their unit’s effectiveness: ‘Other photos reproduced in British papers showed severed hands propped next to severed heads in mock salute and dead guerrillas stretched out like tiger skins in front of the units that had “bagged” them.’ [28] This was eerily reminiscent of the way English soldiers had displayed Irish heads, during the Elizabethan conquests 400 years previously."

http://www.troopsoutmovement.com/oliversarmychap5.htm

 
Really, Stan? You can't seriously think that this never happened?

Of course evil shit happens in war. Very evil shit.

That photograph (a few posts earlier isn't real). Other photographs are real. War has to be scary. Woolwich today doesn't.

We are a country at war. Always have been. Therefore, retaliation is expected. This isn't conventional retaliation. It is some random nutter from East London being a scary random nutter. There is no war context and ITV should lose their broadcasting licence IMO.
 
they didnt have photoshop in 1951

"In 1952, soon after being appointed High Commissioner, General Templer had said ‘the hard core of communists in this country are fanatics and must be, and will be, exterminated.’ That same year the Daily Worker carried a photo of a smiling Royal Marine commando in Malaya, holding the severed head of a dead guerrilla. Shortly after, a second photo was shown, with another marine holding two severed heads. The authorities claimed that heads and hands were taken from the bodies of ‘terrorists’ for identification purposes. But many soldiers regarded them as trophies, which showed their unit’s effectiveness: ‘Other photos reproduced in British papers showed severed hands propped next to severed heads in mock salute and dead guerrillas stretched out like tiger skins in front of the units that had “bagged” them.’ [28] This was eerily reminiscent of the way English soldiers had displayed Irish heads, during the Elizabethan conquests 400 years previously."

http://www.troopsoutmovement.com/oliversarmychap5.htm


God. Why are people so stupid.
 
Brooker outlines how not to cover a lunatic murderer, 2009.

Mass media don't give a shit. They love death far too much for that.

 
Iv'e just finished watching Newsnight, it was reported that when a group of young muslims were asked for their opinion on the attack they replied "it was a good thing". They may be in the minority but their comments dont help

was this the case on Newsnight?, I sincerely hope it wasn't
 
...and on cue...here we go...

Latest

00:30 Lord Carlile, a former independent reviewer of terror laws, has said the killing should cause the Government to rethink the decision to drop the planned Communications Data Bill from the Queen's Speech, which would have extended email and internet monitoring to the security services.
Labour ex-home secretary Lord Reid said such measures were "essential" to combating terrorism, warning it could otherwise take "some huge tragedy" to show the decision was wrong.
Full-scale legislation was dropped from last month's Queen's Speech in the face of Liberal Democrat opposition to what critics dubbed a "snooper's charter".
Speaking on BBC2's Newsnight, Lord Carlile said: "We have to learn proportionate lessons from what has occurred.
"We mustn't rush to judgment. But we must ensure that the police and the security services have for the future the tools they need which wil enable them to prevent this kind of attack taking place.
"I hope that this will give the Government pause for thought about their abandonment for example of the Communcations Data Bill and possibly pause for thought about converting control orders into what are now called Tpims, with a diluted set of powers.
"Lone wolves, even though they are always inevitably connected at least with internet training, are very difficult to catch so we must give the authorities proportionate tools to catch them."
He said he was "not suggesting they had anything to do with today's attack".
And Lord Reid said that mobile phone data had been crucial in foiling the 2006 plot to blow up airliners. He said as terrorists now used online communication this made some of the measures the Government refused to implement absolutely essential.

Reid:facepalm:...just like old times.:(
 
Fuck off back to trolling about shit that doesn't matter Stan, you aren't covering yourself with glory here.

This story is nothing without the video.

A video of a madman who has apparently just killed an innocent person in a London suburb. It is totally irresponsible of any broadcaster to put that footage out. The consequences could be horrific. London is not a war zone.

Other attrocities have been recorded photographically within war zones. Non-attrocites have been published falsely in order to scare the opposition. Many images were doctored to achieve such results.

Here we are talking about a random person with no official alliegance to any recognised terrorist group, army, or government running lose on the streets killing innocent people and then offering an impromptu interview to an apparently 'not really fussed' passer-by.

That passer-by then apparently contacted ITV to supply the footage which ITV promptly put out on the internet.

David Cameron will attend a meeting tomorrow morning after his blow job and OJ.

Crisis on the streets of London just like it has always been. This time captured for 'real'.

It is very different to what is happening in real war zones. The worrying thing is that shit like this put out by ITV could escalate, because people seem to like being scared from a safe distance (internet/TV).

It has all escalated from video footage on the internet. A photo in tomorrows papers would just have been another page Four 1 inch column. Why? I don't really know.
 
This story is nothing without the video.

A video of a madman who has apparently just killed an innocent person in a London suburb. It is totally irresponsible of any broadcaster to put that footage out. The consequences could be horrific. London is not a war zone.

Other attrocities have been recorded photographically within war zones. Non-attrocites have been published falsely in order to scare the opposition. Many images were doctored to achieve such results.

Here we are talking about a random person with no official alliegance to any recognised terrorist group, army, or government running lose on the streets killing innocent people and then offering an impromptu interview to an apparently 'not really fussed' passer-by.

That passer-by then apparently contacted ITV to supply the footage which ITV promptly put out on the internet.

David Cameron will attend a meeting tomorrow morning after his blow job and OJ.

Crisis on the streets of London just like it has always been. This time captured for 'real'.

It is very different to what is happening in real war zones. The worrying thing is that shit like this put out by ITV could escalate, because people seem to like being scared from a safe distance (internet/TV).

It has all escalated from video footage on the internet. A photo in tomorrows papers would just have been another page Four 1 inch column. Why? I don't really know.
Drunk again I see.
 
The scout lady has given an even better interview to the Guardian:​

"I was just on my way home after a trip to France. I was visiting my children in Plumstead and I had taken a 53 bus to get to Parliament Square where I was going to meet my children and walk to Victoria coach station before getting the coach to Helston in Cornwall.
"I was sitting on the lower deck and the bus stopped. I could clearly see a body in the road and a crashed car. I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help.
"I went over to the body where there was a lady sitting there and she said he was dead. She had comforted him by putting something under his back and a jacket over his head. I took his pulse and there was none. I couldn't see the man's face but I could see no evidence that suggested someone had tried to cut off his head. I could see nothing on him to suggest that he was a soldier.
"Then a black guy with a black hat and a revolver in one hand and a cleaver in the other came over. He was very excited and he told me not to get close to the body. I didn't really feel anything. I was not scared because he was not drunk, he was not on drugs. He was normal. I could speak to him and he wanted to speak and that's what we did.
"I spoke to him for more than five minutes. I asked him why he had done what he had done. He said he had killed the man because he [the victim] was a British soldier who killed Muslim women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was furious about the British army being over there.
"There was blood on the pavement by the car where the man on the ground had been hit by it.At first there was no blood by the body but as I talked to the man it began to flow which worried me because blood needs a beating heart to flow. But I didn't want to annoy the man by going back to the body.
Ingrid-Loyau-Kennett-001.jpg
Ingrid Loyau-Kennett
I asked him what he was going to do next because the police were going to arrive soon. He said it was a war and if the police were coming, he was going to kill them. I asked him if that was a reasonable thing to do but it was clear that he really wanted to do that. He talked about war but he did not talk about dying and then he left to speak to someone else.
"I went to speak to the other man who was quieter and more shy. I asked him if he wanted to give me what he was holding in his hand, which was a knife but I didn't want to say that. He didn't agree and I asked him: 'Do you want to carry on?' He said: 'No, no, no.' I didn't want to upset him and then the other man came back to me. I asked him what he wanted to do next.
"At that point, there were so many people around that I didn't want him to get scared or agitated. I kept talking to him to keep him occupied.
"Then I saw my bus was moving and I knew that the police would arrive very soon. I asked him if there was anything else I could do for him because my bus was about to leave and he said no.
"I got on the bus and, after 10 seconds, someone came on and told everyone to get down. I saw a police car pulling up and a police man and policewoman getting out. The two black men ran towards the car and the officers shot them in the legs, I think.
"When the shooting started, I was not scared. There was so many women screaming and crying on the bus, it took me a minute to calm them down. I didn't have a moment to think of myself.
"I could see the man with the black hat on was badly hurt as he was being operated on but both were still moving."The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "I am just happy that I managed to do something that might have prevented more trouble. I feel fine at the moment but I suppose the shock could hit me later."
 
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