Women's boxing final

[Sasaferrato]

If the concern is that someone has power/stamina advantages over their opponent surely that can be measured? That the difference is so significant between opponents as to potentially cause harm how does anyone know that they are not putting two XX opponents together where there is a significant risk.

My thoughts are if the concern about safety is so great either the sport should be disbanded or they need a much more accurate method to calculate risk between all opponents?

I think it is inevitable that boxing will be banned. Given the evidence emerging from football and rugby re repeated concussion, and injury engendered by heading the ball, in sports where your aim isn't to batter your opponent into submission, continuation of a 'sport' where the intent is to render your opponent unconscious is untenable.

 

[sleaterkinney]

My apologies I thought you were arguing confidently from a position where you had all the facts and a thorough understanding of the science to back up your position.

What is this nonsense?.i gave you the name of what they look for. What's your method?

 

[Steel Icarus]

I think it is inevitable that boxing will be banned. Given the evidence emerging from football and rugby re repeated concussion, and injury engendered by heading the ball, in sports where your aim isn't to batter your opponent into submission

Point of order - that's not the aim of boxing

 

[Sasaferrato]

Point of order - that's not the aim of boxing

What is the aim then?

 

[bellaozzydog]

I think it is inevitable that boxing will be banned. Given the evidence emerging from football and rugby re repeated concussion, and injury engendered by heading the ball, in sports where your aim isn't to batter your opponent into submission, continuation of a 'sport' where the intent is to render your opponent unconscious is untenable.

I love a bit of boxing (doing it and following it) but ultimately I think you are right.

It has social value within the community/ youth work, respect, self discipline, exercise, belonging etc

The filthy state of professional boxing and this whole IBA shite isn’t doing much to prolong it.

On a different tangent Does anyone ever see posh/rich boys fighting?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Here is the article I referred to earlier.

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting: What does science tell us about boxing’s gender row in Olympics?

Research is shedding light on different chromosomal make-ups and what advantages they may bring to sport.

www.bbc.com

 

[kalidarkone]

I love a bit of boxing (doing it and following it) but ultimately I think you are right.

It has social value within the community/ youth work, respect, self discipline, exercise, belonging etc

The filthy state of professional boxing and this whole IBA shite isn’t doing much to prolong it.

On a different tangent Does anyone ever see posh/rich boys fighting?

Fencing?

 

[planetgeli]

On a different tangent Does anyone ever see posh/rich boys fighting?

Fencing?

Jousting is the only sport that has ever involved rich people killing each other for an audience of the lower classes.

And it should definitely be an Olympic sport.

 

[JimW]

Oxford and Cambridge have boxing blues, suppose they have other career options after graduation though.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Jousting is the only sport that has ever involved rich people killing each other for an audience of the lower classes.

And it should definitely be an Olympic sport.

Compulsory.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Oxford and Cambridge have boxing blues, suppose they have other career options after graduation though.

You’d think so

 

[belboid]

Grr, missed tonight's first match as I got stuck into the taekwondo.

Lin Yu-Ting won, anyway.

 

[two sheds]

Khelif is apparently taking action for the abuse she's suffered. Rowling and Morgan might want to take note.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Another gold for another hard working lady boxer, bullied by JK Rowling.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Not self-ID in Khelif's case though is it? She was born and registered as a girl, grew up to be a woman and has a passport saying that. Not read any background on the Taiwanese boxer.

Technically we all self id - either in line with how others identify us, or not. But it is funny to see those who previously claimed that people with vaginas were women now backtracking and claiming some people with vaginas are men. (ETA - I'm a trans woman with a passport that says I'm a woman - so that's a red herring).


Thought I'd add this meme which made me laugh.

 

[Spymaster]

On a different tangent Does anyone ever see posh/rich boys fighting?

Rugby.

 

[Spymaster]

Nope, there were two tests at WADA accredited labs which proved that they could not enter IBF competitions as a female.
The IOC also had these results and these bouts should not have taken place. Boxing is categorised by stuff like weight and sex for safety as much as anything.

IBA clarifies the facts: the letter to the IOC regarding two ineligible boxers was sent and acknowledged

The International Boxing Association (IBA) has clarified the facts that led to the disqualification of two boxers, Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu-ting of Chinese Taipei. Imane Khelif has been participating in the IBA competitions since 2018, and Lin Yu-ting has competed since 2017. Cu...

www.iba.sport

Clearly biological men should not be competing against women in elite sport, but that doesn't seem to be what's happened here, certainly in the case of Khelife. It was the IBA who claimed the testing was done at WADA approved labs, but the IBA is a hugely corrupt and discredited organisation, they won't release the testing methodology or results, and WADA have responded stating that they have no involvement in gender testing, only drug testing.

 

[Lord Camomile]

It was the IBA who claimed the testing was done at WADA approved labs, but the IBA is a hugely corrupt and discredited organisation, they won't release the testing methodology or results, and WADA have responded stating that they have no involvement in gender testing, only drug testing.

Yeah, I interpreted that as "we sent it to labs which do many things, one of which is drug testing, for which they are WADA-accredited".

i.e. while perhaps factually accurate, the WADA accreditation bares limited, if any, relevance to any gender testing carried out at those labs.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, I interpreted that as "we sent it to labs which do many things, one of which is drug testing, for which they are WADA-accredited".

i.e. while perhaps factually accurate, the WADA accreditation bears limited, if any, relevance to any gender testing carried out at those labs.

Yes. And as such, the IBA's reference to the WADA accreditation is specious.

They could nail all the speculation immediately by releasing their test results but the won't. It's hard to draw any conclusion other than the obvious one from that.

 

[Callie]

I get that they can't release an individuals test results but they should be stating the test set and criteria for pass fail. In this situation we know the individual involved so confidentiality is already a bit out of the window.

It's all dodgy as fuck really. If they want to make this a qualifying criteria should the sport be looking at internationally agreeing testing and criteria? I assume it's been done with doping but I doubt until more recently it's been actually considered for determination of gender if that is what they want to use.

It doesn't make sense to have one boxing area say a and b are requirements while another says c and D are.

 

[planetgeli]

It doesn't make sense to have one boxing area say a and b are requirements while another says c and D are.

Then you probably don't even want to know about the four separate boxing authorities who control the sport, each with their own titles meaning you can have 4 different champions at the same weight.

 

[Callie]

Then you probably don't even want to know about the four separate boxing authorities who control the sport, each with their own titles meaning you can have 4 different champions at the same weight.

Yeah it clearly is like that and I'm sure it's the same across most sports and elsewhere in the universe. I can still grumpy about it though. I guess standardisation has is problems but I think it's better for everyone (participants, observers, random internet commentators) to know what the goal posts are (ring posts? I dunno what those corner bits are). Also for there being agreed criteria based on as close as you can get to justifiable facts.

Sorry too much words.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yes. And as such, the IBA's reference to the WADA accreditation is specious.

They could nail all the speculation immediately by releasing their test results but the won't. It's hard to draw any conclusion other than the obvious one from that.

The athletes could have also taken them to CAS to dispute the results. They didn't.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I get that they can't release an individuals test results but they should be stating the test set and criteria for pass fail. In this situation we know the individual involved so confidentiality is already a bit out of the window.

It's all dodgy as fuck really. If they want to make this a qualifying criteria should the sport be looking at internationally agreeing testing and criteria? I assume it's been done with doping but I doubt until more recently it's been actually considered for determination of gender if that is what they want to use.

It doesn't make sense to have one boxing area say a and b are requirements while another says c and D are.

Lots of sports like athletics and swimming do have rules, including for athletes with dsds but the IOC which is running boxing in the Olympics, doesn’t and doesn’t do any testing for sex either.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

On a different tangent Does anyone ever see posh/rich boys fighting?

Mark Zuckerberg does MMA and is apparently quite good, he's won trophies with no suggestion that they were fixed. This came out when Elon Musk challenged him to a cage fight and he said "yeah sure" and then Musk apparently read his Wikipedia and backed down very quickly.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Duelling was a great way to prune upper class twits though, we should bring that back. Minimum income level to participate.

 

[smokedout]

Lots of sports like athletics and swimming do have rules, including for athletes with dsds but the IOC which is running boxing in the Olympics, doesn’t and doesn’t do any testing for sex either.

The rules in athletics are based around testosterone levels (and are currently subject to legal challenge). Under these rules it's likely Khelif would qualify, although we can't say for sure because the IBA have been so vague about the tests.

 

[Spymaster]

Khelif has named JK Rowling, Donald Trump, and Elon Musk in her lawsuit citing cyber-bullying.

This is going to be very interesting as all of them tweeted suggesting that she is a man, presumably basing their opinions on the IBF saying that XY chromosomes are present in her DNA.

So, afaics this is going to turn on whether or not XY chromosomes are indeed present in her DNA. If they are, and she is considered a biological male, all those named have done is to express their opinions. If they are not, and she's a biological female, they've defamed her.

I can't see how the IBF can't now be forced to reveal their testing process and results, or Imane compelled to take a DNA test.

 

[two sheds]

Is it that straightforward?

Swyer Syndrome

People with Swyer syndrome have XY (male) chromosomes and have functional female genitalia. Learn more about living with Swyer syndrome.

my.clevelandclinic.org

From what I've seen XY chromosomes are "usually" or "typically" associated with being male.

Again, though, this seems to suggest a good response to the twats who say things like "Can't you even say what a woman is?": "Tell me about Swyer syndrome".

 

[Spymaster]

Is it that straightforward?

I have no idea yet what Khelif is claiming beyond saying that she's a woman who's been bullied. The point though, is that this is now going to law with 3 very public and powerful figures named. As I said above, they've said she's a man based on having XY chromosomes (or the IBF saying she has). Firstly; does she have XY chromosomes, and if so, is believing/saying she's a (biological) man a crime?