Windrush Square, Brixton - news and discussion

[Gramsci]

HOW MUCH?! Windrush Square bollards cost over £2 MILLION – that’s £13k per bollard – as Lambeth Council admits no terrorism threat

Council report on Capital Investment Programme says that the extra funding comes from this budget:

Sustainable
Transport/Public Realm

Works to develop transport infrastructure and their
surrounding areas to share a wider mix of users and
meet the demands of growth.
Measures to improve the cycling experience and reduce
impact on the air quality and climate change by creating
an environment welcoming to pedestrians and cyclists.

I don't see how erecting bollards on Windrush Square is justified use of this budget.

Especially as the Council report says that erection of these bollards under equality impact will have negative effect on electric wheelchair users and the partially sighted. They do argue they have used TFL guidelines for spacing. But fact they put this into report under EI says its negative effect.

 

[Gramsci]

Report also says the Council will pay for any costs that Southern Gas incur in future if they have to do maintenance works. Part of site has TFL as landowner who charge for this.

 

[David Clapson]

To be fair, I think it should be spelt out how much of the money comes from sources other than Lambeth council. And I don't think it's reasonable to go off on one about 'no current threat' existing. That just means that nobody is known to be currently targeting the square. It doesn't mean that unknown nutters aren't targeting the square. And it doesn't mean that the known nutters don't have a secret plan to target the square. So it doesn't mean that gatherings in the square are safe now or will be safe in the future. And it doesn't mean that far right/white supremacist threats have magically disappeared. The council, police and Tfl have a duty to protect community gatherings in the square, many of which have a majority of black attendees. Black lives matter, so if they need money spent on protecting them, spend the money. The protection afforded by the bollards is likely to encourage more community gatherings to take place. They encourage the community to make themselves heard. The article is hopelessly misleading and biased. Worthy of the Daily Mail in my opinion.

 

[editor]

To be fair, I think it should be spelt out how much of the money comes from sources other than Lambeth council. And I don't think it's reasonable to go off on one about 'no current threat' existing. That just means that nobody is known to be currently targeting the square. It doesn't mean that unknown nutters aren't targeting the square. And it doesn't mean that the known nutters don't have a secret plan to target the square. So it doesn't mean that gatherings in the square are safe now or will be safe in the future. And it doesn't mean that far right/white supremacist threats have magically disappeared. The council, police and Tfl have a duty to protect community gatherings in the square, many of which have a majority of black attendees. Black lives matter, so if they need money spent on protecting them, spend the money. The protection afforded by the bollards is likely to encourage more community gatherings to take place. They encourage the community to make themselves heard. The article is hopelessly misleading and biased. Worthy of the Daily Mail in my opinion.

So you're not so bothered with the bollards going £1,856,000 over budget or the fact that there was no credible or pressing threat that necessitated such outrageously expensive measures?

And Daily Mail? LOL. If they get to hear about Lambeth spunking so much money away they'll have a real field day.

 

[Rushy]

I suspect that part of the motivation for the bollards is that Lambeth intend to use the square for more income generating events. As I recall, the last events strategy - the same one that removed the eight day limit for "major events" in brockwell Park - claimed that their research (carried out on the first weeks of lock down) demonstrated that residents desperately want more town centre events too. This way it conveniently comes out of a security budget.

 

[David Clapson]

So you're not so bothered with the bollards going £1,856,000 over budget or the fact that there was no credible or pressing threat that necessitated such outrageously expensive measures?

And Daily Mail? LOL. If they get to hear about Lambeth spunking so much money away they'll have a real field day.

I covered the threat adequately. Please read my post properly. I'd add that you have no idea what undisclosed security threats there may be. It's in the nature of security that it's best not to reveal much publicly. But even the most biased, ignorant person would have to concede that community gatherings in the square are an obvious terrorist target. You're ignoring that because you want to indulge in a kneejerk reaction to bash the council. The more scrutiny the council gets the better, but there's no point attacking them when you deliberately choose not to see their point of view. It doesn't help anyone, and it reduces your own credibility.

I suggest you should note that Jacqui Dyer is involved. I've known her since before she was a councillor. Her work rate is fearsome, she achieves a great deal, she's very intelligent, her values are beyond reproach and she gives masses of unpaid time to the community. She's one of the most generous people in the borough. If you slag off her work without even talking to her you're making a silly mistake.

It's unfortunate that the project went over budget. We've already discussed one of the reasons, which was the contractors discovering unmapped utilities. That wasn't foreseeable and it's the fault of someone involved with some other project years ago.

 

[editor]

I covered the threat adequately. Please read my post properly. I'd add that you have no idea what undisclosed security threats there may be. It's in the nature of security that it's best not to reveal much publicly. But even the most biased, ignorant person would have to concede that community gatherings in the square are an obvious terrorist target. You're ignoring that because you want to indulge in a kneejerk reaction to bash the council. The more scrutiny the council gets the better, but there's no point attacking them when you deliberately choose not to see their point of view. It doesn't help anyone, and it reduces your own credibility.

In case you missed it, I didn't write the article but I find plenty to be angry about over such a catastrophic overspend that worked out ay each bollard coasting £13,000.

 

[David Clapson]

And the budget wasn't 1.8m over. 1.8m is the total. The overage is 0.34m. Skilled debating from you, as usual.

 

[Gramsci]

To be fair, I think it should be spelt out how much of the money comes from sources other than Lambeth council. And I don't think it's reasonable to go off on one about 'no current threat' existing. That just means that nobody is known to be currently targeting the square. It doesn't mean that unknown nutters aren't targeting the square. And it doesn't mean that the known nutters don't have a secret plan to target the square. So it doesn't mean that gatherings in the square are safe now or will be safe in the future. And it doesn't mean that far right/white supremacist threats have magically disappeared. The council, police and Tfl have a duty to protect community gatherings in the square, many of which have a majority of black attendees. Black lives matter, so if they need money spent on protecting them, spend the money. The protection afforded by the bollards is likely to encourage more community gatherings to take place. They encourage the community to make themselves heard. The article is hopelessly misleading and biased. Worthy of the Daily Mail in my opinion.

Your adamant support of bollards for this site makes me wonder why you said something different about Brixton House bollards,

I would have thought your insistence on unknown terrorist threats would mean you'd support bollards outside the new theatre.

Post in thread 'Brixton news, rumours and general chat' Brixton news, rumours and general chat

new Brixton House theatre seems to have anti-terror bollards. Are they now the norm for anywhere where a crowd gathers? Seems a bit OTT.

 

[Gramsci]

To be fair, I think it should be spelt out how much of the money comes from sources other than Lambeth council. And I don't think it's reasonable to go off on one about 'no current threat' existing. That just means that nobody is known to be currently targeting the square. It doesn't mean that unknown nutters aren't targeting the square. And it doesn't mean that the known nutters don't have a secret plan to target the square. So it doesn't mean that gatherings in the square are safe now or will be safe in the future. And it doesn't mean that far right/white supremacist threats have magically disappeared. The council, police and Tfl have a duty to protect community gatherings in the square, many of which have a majority of black attendees. Black lives matter, so if they need money spent on protecting them, spend the money. The protection afforded by the bollards is likely to encourage more community gatherings to take place. They encourage the community to make themselves heard. The article is hopelessly misleading and biased. Worthy of the Daily Mail in my opinion.

So what are the sources other than Lambeth council?

What I posted up was from Council reports.

So can you post up sources of funding for this that don't come from Council please.

 

[Gramsci]

from this report looks like all original funding comes from Lambeth.

CIL are money from developers they pay to Council when they obtain planning permission for large developments. The money going to put in infrastructure to benefit the community. So Council could argue that this is at no cost to the Council Tax payer. I'd argue that using it to pay for bollards is stretching what CIL is really for.

The cost of the measures proposed in this report is estimated to be £1,447,509; the contract value of
£1,107,596 is included within this total. On 20 July 2020 the Cabinet approved the 5-year Capital
Programme which included an allocation for Transport and Public Realm from which this will be spent. It
is expected that this will be financed by Strategic Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL).

 

[editor]

And the budget wasn't 1.8m over. 1.8m is the total. The overage is 0.34m. Skilled debating from you, as usual.

The total spend was £2,104,218, as documented in the council's own report:

https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s135063/Lambeth%20L3%20Public%20Realm%20Project%20Phase%202%20-%20ODDR%20Part%20I.pdf

 

[editor]

I do find it strange that Lambeth suddenly discovered all these hitherto unknown utilities pipes seeing as they'd completely dug up Windrush Square only 13 years previously:

 

[DaphneM]

I do find it strange that Lambeth suddenly discovered all these hitherto unknown utilities pipes seeing as they'd completely dug up Windrush Square only 13 years previously:

View attachment 311557

Very strange... if only they explained it in the document...

2.2 Windrush Square was redeveloped in 2009/10 as part of the Brixton town centre redevelopment works. This historical project undertaken by Transport for London and the Greater London Authority involved significant changes to the carriageway alignment and vertical levels in the square. This has led to numerous issues for the current project with utilities being shallower than information from records and feasibility investigations revealed.

2.3 As a result, there have been many unforeseen redundant and unregistered elements exposed only in the build phase, requiring safe management to enable the installation of the security bollard foundations. Examples of these are redundant gas mains and valves, redundant and idle electrical mains and steel pipe ducts, unidentified illegally installed power cables in telecommunication chambers and utilities trapped in concrete foundation assets of others.

2.4 To address these challenges, utility providers have required significant diversions and proving of locations of assets before agreeing the proposals near or over their assets. Utilities providers have had long lead in times to do the works as they have been impacted by Covid-19 and Brexit in terms of materials and personnel.

 

[Rushy]

unidentified illegally installed power cables in telecommunication chambers

 

[editor]

Very strange... if only they explained it in the document...

2.2 Windrush Square was redeveloped in 2009/10 as part of the Brixton town centre redevelopment works. This historical project undertaken by Transport for London and the Greater London Authority involved significant changes to the carriageway alignment and vertical levels in the square. This has led to numerous issues for the current project with utilities being shallower than information from records and feasibility investigations revealed.

2.3 As a result, there have been many unforeseen redundant and unregistered elements exposed only in the build phase, requiring safe management to enable the installation of the security bollard foundations. Examples of these are redundant gas mains and valves, redundant and idle electrical mains and steel pipe ducts, unidentified illegally installed power cables in telecommunication chambers and utilities trapped in concrete foundation assets of others.

2.4 To address these challenges, utility providers have required significant diversions and proving of locations of assets before agreeing the proposals near or over their assets. Utilities providers have had long lead in times to do the works as they have been impacted by Covid-19 and Brexit in terms of materials and personnel.

So no one checked the figures being presented, resulting in the sky high overspend? And why isn't Lambeth pursing those responsible for damages?

 

[Gramsci]

Very strange... if only they explained it in the document...

2.2 Windrush Square was redeveloped in 2009/10 as part of the Brixton town centre redevelopment works. This historical project undertaken by Transport for London and the Greater London Authority involved significant changes to the carriageway alignment and vertical levels in the square. This has led to numerous issues for the current project with utilities being shallower than information from records and feasibility investigations revealed.

2.3 As a result, there have been many unforeseen redundant and unregistered elements exposed only in the build phase, requiring safe management to enable the installation of the security bollard foundations. Examples of these are redundant gas mains and valves, redundant and idle electrical mains and steel pipe ducts, unidentified illegally installed power cables in telecommunication chambers and utilities trapped in concrete foundation assets of others.

2.4 To address these challenges, utility providers have required significant diversions and proving of locations of assets before agreeing the proposals near or over their assets. Utilities providers have had long lead in times to do the works as they have been impacted by Covid-19 and Brexit in terms of materials and personnel.

What this does not say is that this was to all intents and purposes a Lambeth project.

At that time Brixton had a Town Centre Manager. Jo Negrini. Who moved onto to Croydon to be Chief Exec. Messed up so badly she had to go.

The revamp of the square was led by her as Lambeth Council project with funding from TFL and GLA.

It was a project seen to its end by senior Lambeth officer.

So Lambeth should have been aware of the issues with this site.

 

[CH1]

What this does not say is that this was to all intents and purposes a Lambeth project.

At that time Brixton had a Town Centre Manager. Jo Negrini. Who moved onto to Croydon to be Chief Exec. Messed up so badly she had to go.

The revamp of the square was led by her as Lambeth Council project with funding from TFL and GLA.

It was a project seen to its end by senior Lambeth officer.

So Lambeth should have been aware of the issues with this site.

A year ago Jo Negrini was reported as working for Arup the engineering consultancy.
Plenty of scope to continue ignoring illegal underground power connection in telecoms chambers there then.

Negrini lands cushty consultancy with ex-council supplier

EXCLUSIVE (and available in all good, and some not-so-good, newsagents): The exec who walked away with a £440,000 pay-out from the borough she helped to bankrupt has re-emerged with a juicy ‘…

insidecroydon.com

 

[editor]

These guys were royally taking the piss over the weekend: they set up this marquee complete with contactless card payment!

 

[CH1]

These guys were royally taking the piss over the weekend: they set up this marquee complete with contactless card payment!

View attachment 341048

That looks like a box of Carib beer on the ground there. Did you ask to see their Lambeth parks authority to trade and alcohol license?

 

[editor]

That looks like a box of Carib beer on the ground there. Did you ask to see their Lambeth parks authority to trade and alcohol license?

I walked swiftly by. I'd no interest in hassling them.

 

[David Clapson]

Looks like they're plugged into the mains. I doubt you can unlock the cover to the socket unless you have permission and a key. I've also seen people operating the big sliding bollards to get vans out recently. Just one van at a time, not for a big event. So maybe the council is allowing vendors on the square. They've done it in previous years. There was a jerk chicken outfit which used to be there every week. There might be something about it on the council site if anyone can be arsed to look.

 

[editor]

Looks like they're plugged into the mains. I doubt you can unlock the cover to the socket unless you have permission and a key. I've also seen people operating the big sliding bollards to get vans out recently. Just one van at a time, not for a big event. So maybe the council is allowing vendors on the square. They've done it in previous years. There was a jerk chicken outfit which used to be there every week. There might be something about it on the council site if anyone can be arsed to look.

I think they had a generator.

 

[cuppa tee]

That looks like a box of Carib beer on the ground there. Did you ask to see their Lambeth parks authority to trade and alcohol license?

it says colombia on the box, more likely fruit or veg produce.

 

[TopCat]

That looks like a box of Carib beer on the ground there. Did you ask to see their Lambeth parks authority to trade and alcohol license?

We could get you a clipboard. You would suit it.

 

[Pickman's model]

We could get you a clipboard. You would suit it.

ch1 recently

 

[CH1]

View attachment 341281
ch1 recently

And there was I identifying as

 

[Gramsci]

Looks like they're plugged into the mains. I doubt you can unlock the cover to the socket unless you have permission and a key. I've also seen people operating the big sliding bollards to get vans out recently. Just one van at a time, not for a big event. So maybe the council is allowing vendors on the square. They've done it in previous years. There was a jerk chicken outfit which used to be there every week. There might be something about it on the council site if anyone can be arsed to look.

I read the latest Brixton blog paper version and it has front page about ASB in central Brixton. On Windrush square it say the main socket has been broken into and tampered with. So others can use it. The article ( trying to find it online) basically says the Council have lost control of Windrush square.

 

[Gramsci]

A year ago Jo Negrini was reported as working for Arup the engineering consultancy.
Plenty of scope to continue ignoring illegal underground power connection in telecoms chambers there then.

Negrini lands cushty consultancy with ex-council supplier

EXCLUSIVE (and available in all good, and some not-so-good, newsagents): The exec who walked away with a £440,000 pay-out from the borough she helped to bankrupt has re-emerged with a juicy ‘…

insidecroydon.com

Ex-council CEO Negrini’s company finds business a struggle

Tough times for Jo Negrini, who is encountering her very own cost of living crisis. The chief exec who did so much to bankrupt the council, leading to hundreds of jobs being axed, dozens of public …

insidecroydon.com

Poor Negreedy is finding life hard in the private sector.

Labour Council bureaucrats like her did well with well paid jobs for Labour Councils. With big handouts when they leave.

A really obnoxious person who unfortunately I had to deal with when she was one of Lambeths favourite senior officers.

Quite why people like her manage to get their noses in the trough at local Councils doesn't say much for the ability of Labour Cllrs to not see through them.

Her attitude to her job was to do whatever she thought the Labour group wanted. They loved her for it. A go to officer.

 

[CH1]

Ex-council CEO Negrini’s company finds business a struggle

Tough times for Jo Negrini, who is encountering her very own cost of living crisis. The chief exec who did so much to bankrupt the council, leading to hundreds of jobs being axed, dozens of public …

insidecroydon.com

Poor Negreedy is finding life hard in the private sector.

Labour Council bureaucrats like her did well with well paid jobs for Labour Councils. With big handouts when they leave.

A really obnoxious person who unfortunately I had to deal with when she was one of Lambeths favourite senior officers.

Quite why people like her manage to get their noses in the trough at local Councils doesn't say much for the ability of Labour Cllrs to not see through them.

Her attitude to her job was to do whatever she thought the Labour group wanted. They loved her for it. A go to officer.

I thought I heard she had gone back to Australia. Its more vibrant over there these days - particularly in the multi-cultural and LGBTQ+ department.

What's all this about: Jo Negrini named NLA's New Londoner of the Year - Develop Croydon