Why is 'browning up' acceptable in Hollywood?

[Belushi]

but I don't remember anyone criticising Ben Kingsley for doing Ghandi.

TBF He is half-Indian.

 

[Orang Utan]

"blacking-up" / "browning-up" - same thing.

But Hollywood obviously feels it's different.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Hank Azaria is white and got away with Apu in The Simpsons.

True. Well, as far as I know - I'm not an Indian immigrant to America, for all I know there is a lot of anti-Simpsons sentiment in that community.

 

[Athos]

Are you for real? Blacking up or browning up whatever is not ok under any circumstance.

I disgree. Blacking up is not acceptable when it's to poke fun at people of colour, and it's not acceptable if it is a way to avoid employing people of colour. But, if the process is fair and the casting director considers a white actor to be the most able to play a particular role, then I can't really see what the issue is. Actors pretend to be someone they're not all the time.

 

[8ball]

That was "blacking up" really, and was knowingly post-ironic or something. And they got shit for it even then. I think Fisher Stevens did too, with his comedy Apu-style Indian, but I don't remember anyone criticising Ben Kingsley for doing Ghandi.

Ben Kingsley is half Indian, isn't he?

 

[DotCommunist]

apropos of nothing I've got a History Channel biblical epic on in the background (ma watching) and Samson is played by a black bloke with dreads. The bit where he slays five armed warriors with the jawbone of an ass is quality.

 

[DotCommunist]

aaand now delilah's screwed him by chopping his dredds off while he was asleep. No hair= no godly superstrength

 

[Belushi]

Ben Kingsley is half Indian, isn't he?

Yes, it's a stage name, he was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji.

 

[8ball]

I disgree. Blacking up is not acceptable when it's to poke fun at people of colour, and it's not acceptable if it is a way to avoid employing people of colour. But, if the process is fair and the casting director considers a white actor to be the most able to play a particular role, then I can't really see what the issue is. Actors pretend to be someone they're not all the time.

Blacking up has a very iffy history which factors into it heavily.
This is what the idiots failed to take into account when they had a massive wobbler about Idris Elba in the Thor film.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why not? Actors play all sorts of parts. As long as the process for recruiting them is fair i.e. doesn't discriminate in favour of white actors, then I see no reason in principle why a white actor shouldn't play a 'brown' character, if the make-up is good enough.

My point is that there is no good reason for r a white actor to brown up as there are always brown actors who can do the role. It's shocking that it is seen as acceptable. Radio 4 still employs posh actors to put on funny foreign accents when the UK has plenty of actors from everywhere who can do the job far more convincingly.

 

[Athos]

Here's a perspective you might enjoy

https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/yo...cotts-pretty-racist-exodus-movie-37471c4d7628

That's a valid criticism of this film, and the casting policy. But it's not an argument against the wider principle, which is what I was addressing in response to OU's post. In fact, the author of that article seems to agree with the point I made: "I could even accept him going the Louis CK route of 'the best actor gets the job regardless of if race makes sense' and casting Merly Streep as Tuya, Benicio Del Toro as Moses and Choi Min-Sik as Rhamses for all I care."

 

[Fez909]

Well, yes - although I thought Orang Utan was making the point in the OP that white actors in blackface is a lot more incendiary than white actors playing brown (north africans, indians) people.

But Hollywood obviously feels it's different.

So is there someone sat on the Hollywood casting board deciding whether a role requires a skintone dark enough to be called black, in which case they need a black actor, but otherwise it's ok to brown-up a white actor?

"Hmm, is this shade of skin too dark? Maybe we need someone black?"
"Nah, he's brown. We're cool"

 

[butchersapron]

aaand now delilah's screwed him by chopping his dredds off while he was asleep. No hair= no godly superstrength

Intention is the simple key here.

 

[Orang Utan]

I disgree. Blacking up is not acceptable when it's to poke fun at people of colour, and it's not acceptable if it is a way to avoid employing people of colour. But, if the process is fair and the casting director considers a white actor to be the most able to play a particular role, then I can't really see what the issue is. Actors pretend to be someone they're not all the time.

How would a white actor ever be a more acceptable choice than a brown one?

 

[gentlegreen]

Isn't you getting something totally wrong academic? To you? To me - to those adding this to the long list of stuff abgut religion you know sweet fa about?

There are by all accounts no contemporaneous accounts and those accounts there are have him stating that the basic tenets of the old religion still stood.

 

[Treacle Toes]

That's a valid criticism of this film, and the casting policy. But it's not an argument against the wider principle,

I think it is. I think these things are related and I think this is what OU's OP is about.

 

[butchersapron]

My point is that there is no good reason for r a white actor to brown up as there are always brown actors who can do the role. It's shocking that it is seen as acceptable. Radio 4 still employs posh actors to put on funny foreign accents when the UK has plenty of actors from everywhere who can do the job far more convincingly.

They strictly employ posh actors to do all british accents.

 

[8ball]

Does that mean you get to play both black and white characters if you're averaging out at the right shade of brown?

 

[Thimble Queen]

I disgree. Blacking up is not acceptable when it's to poke fun at people of colour, and it's not acceptable if it is a way to avoid employing people of colour. But, if the process is fair and the casting director considers a white actor to be the most able to play a particular role, then I can't really see what the issue is. Actors pretend to be someone they're not all the time.

That's a very simplistic view. There's a history of oppression and humiliation around blacking up which can't be divorced from it whatever the attempted justification. There are plenty of actors of colour. There is absolutely no need to have a white person black up. It's something that clearly belongs in the dustbin of history.

 

[Orang Utan]

What about vic and bob?

Fair point.
Though i suppose no-one could do what they do.
That justification sounds pretty shoddy though, when I run it through my mind.

 

[Athos]

My point is that there is no good reason for r a white actor to brown up as there are always brown actors who can do the role. It's shocking that it is seen as acceptable. Radio 4 still employs posh actors to put on funny foreign accents when the UK has plenty of actors from everywhere who can do the job far more convincingly.

But who is the best actor for the role is a matter for the film maker, and, as long as that decision isn't made on a racist basis, I see no problem with it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Does that mean you get to play both black and white characters if you're averaging out at the right shade of brown?

Good question. If casting is important. If you have the acting ability and your phenotype fits the role why not?

 

[8ball]

The strictly employ posh actors to do all british accents.

I think it's often the case that the acting schools require everyone to be able to do RP for a lot of roles regardless of their regional accent.

 

[felixthecat]

A friend of mine played a mute warrior in Prince Of Persia, while Jake Gyllenhall played the lead. He could easily have played him and he wouldn't have needed any fake tan.

But then with no 'name' the film wouldn't get a backer. And if it did it would be dubious that it would make money - no STAR.

And the money is what Hollywood is all about, innit?

 

[Treacle Toes]

But who is the best actor for the role is a matter for the film maker, and, as long as that decision isn't made on a racist basis, I see no problem with it.

You don't think there is racist bias in the casting of Hollywood movies?

 

[butchersapron]

1. There are no contemporaneous accounts and those accounts there are have him stating that the basic tenets of the old religion still stood.

wtf are you on about - you kickd off by claming either christianss or jews for the violence meted out to christ rather than actual proper pagans - and that this is therefore the key to those religions and now you are claiming something both did not exist and that they did and made specific claims. And nn, your confused undertsanding of christian theology is wrong about the old law and the new law and the supercession of the former. Silly athiest.

 

[butchersapron]

I think it's often the case that the acting schools require everyone to be able to do RP for a lot of roles regardless of their regional accent.

In 2014.

 

[Thimble Queen]

But who is the best actor for the role is a matter for the film maker, and, as long as that decision isn't made on a racist basis, I see no problem with it.

You're totally missing the point.

 

[8ball]

Good question. If casting is important. If you have the acting ability and your phenotype fits the role why not?

So is a little bit of 'tanning up' or 'paling out' allowed under those circumstances just as a little fine-tuning?

 

[Orang Utan]

That's a valid criticism of this film, and the casting policy. But it's not an argument against the wider principle, which is what I was addressing in response to OU's post. In fact, the author of that article seems to agree with the point I made: "I could even accept him going the Louis CK route of 'the best actor gets the job regardless of if race makes sense' and casting Merly Streep as Tuya, Benicio Del Toro as Moses and Choi Min-Sik as Rhamses for all I care."

You appear to be suggesting that there arw no non-white actors capable of playing a role as well as white actors like Meryl Streep.