Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[Idris2002]

If I'm ever on a trip with you I'm doing the map reading

No, you won't, because I'm not going back to Hull again.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, you won't, because I'm not going back to Hull again.

Right...

I don't see the connection but we'll just move on

 

[Baronage-Phase]

In 2005 I drove with my sister from Belfast to Sligo. We were very deep into the Republic before we realised we'd crossed the border.

2005 .... post GFA. So you'd have found it easy going across the border.... Did you go through Donegal on the way to Sligo?

 

[Pickman's model]

2005 .... post GFA. So you'd have found it easy going across the border. Did you go through Donegal on the way to Sligo?

I suspect he went via Waterford and Kerry

 

[danny la rouge]

No, you won't, because I'm not going back to Hull again.

Hull ain't a bad place to be.

 

[mojo pixy]

Highway to Hull

 

[Idris2002]

2005 .... post GFA. So you'd have found it easy going across the border.... Did you go through Donegal on the way to Sligo?

That's my point!

 

[Baronage-Phase]

That's my point!

Aye...

 

[Idris2002]

Hull ain't a bad place to be.

It's a long way to Hull if you want to Rock and roll.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's a long way to Hull if you want to Rock and roll.

It’s a long way to the shops if you want a sausage roll.

 

[Idris2002]

It’s a long way to the shops if you want a sausage roll.

It's a long way to Tipperary, to the sweetest girl I know.

 

[Dogsauce]

There wasn't drone technology then, there is now.

Things can’t stay up for more than about 20 minutes at a time, pretty useless.

I think Rees Mogg’s idea of an Innovative technological solution probably involves a watchman in the gondola of a dirigible using semaphore flags to communicate any observed wrongdoing to constables on the ground. Failsafe.

 

[RedStag]

Do you understand how borders work? If there are ways through, around or a border that does a loop de fucking loop then the border doesn't work to do what it's meant to do.

so are you trying to say that legitimate haulage firms will openly flout the law...hmm

 

[RedStag]

If what you, unlike most people, really want is a no-deal crash-out, I fear you may get what you want despite there being no majority for it in parliament or among the electorate. A total fuck-up.

17.4 million people would beg to differ.

And a no-deal does not need a vote in Commons

 

[RedStag]

Of course, why didn't we think of it sooner.

because the Reamainers will cling at anything to stay in their beloved EU

Isn't it funny, how all the polite middle classes that never gave one iota of thought about Scotland or Ireland , now suddenly become champions of their respective independence causes, what next, guess they'll be drudging up independence for Kent or something

 

[RedStag]

Don't sit on the fence, Pippin Took!

the guy's too busy doing his Grade 5 homework for that

 

[RedStag]

The only way to resolve the Irish border issue is for Britain to stay in the single market and customs union. So enjoy the same benefits as being in the EU but without having a say.

In other words, we may as well scrap Brexit and stay in the EU and stop the disaster that is descending upon us.

All other options - Canada, Chequers etc... will damage that Irish border and potentially ignite troubles in Northern Ireland as well as causing damage to business and jobs. Do any of us want that?

It's not too late to stop this Tory hard Brexit.

Yes, we do - the 17.4 million of UK want that as well as some who voted Remain.

Brexit is not about Ireland , it 's about the UK - don't you realise that yet?

 

[Celyn]

And Northern Ireland is part of the UK at present.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Yes, we do - the 17.4 million of UK want that as well as some who voted Remain.

Brexit is not about Ireland , it 's about the UK - don't you realise that yet?

Obviously the only solution is to cut England off from Scotland and Wales cos they didn't vote to leave either.
England could just faff around on its own and leave those countries who don't want to leave to do their own thing.
But no...There is a British dog in the manger attitude amongst the bexiteers ..."we will leave and we will drag the rest of you kicking and screaming with us."

As for remainers ...there are now way more of them in the UK that there were a couple of years ago.
So why not vote again?

I think Graham Norton puts it well though...

""At this point, everyone knows it's a bad idea but there's something very British - and just kind of, well - 'I said, I was hungry enough to eat my foot, so I'm going to eat my foot.'

 

[cupid_stunt]

Obviously the only solution is to cut England off from Scotland and Wales cos they didn't vote to leave either.

*cough*

Wales did vote to leave by 52.5% to 47.5%.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

the guy's too busy doing his Grade 5 homework for that

Ha ha ha..
....obviously Brexit was easier to spell for you, eh?

because the Reamainers will cling at anything to stay in their beloved EU

 

[Baronage-Phase]

*cough*

Wales did vote to leave by 52.5% to 47.5%.

Oh thanks cupid_stunt ....Wales always backs the wrong team though... lol....
They'll have to join England at the hip and leave.

But Scotland and NI should be allowed determine their own future.

 

[SpookyFrank]

because the Reamainers will cling at anything to stay in their beloved EU

Isn't it funny, how all the polite middle classes that never gave one iota of thought about Scotland or Ireland , now suddenly become champions of their respective independence causes, what next, guess they'll be drudging up independence for Kent or something

I'm on record arguing for Kent to be sliced off from Great Britain and shoved off into the north sea.

As for the rest I think you're looking at it backwards. Most remainers don't want to see the UK break up as a result of brexit. Not wanting a hard border in NI is a different issue and unites all sane and decent people on both sides IME. Ireland has been traumatised enough by British fuckery. Anything that makes the island and its people less whole can only cause further suffering.

Noticeably the people who think breaking the peace deal in Northern Ireland is a 'price' worth paying are not the ones who will actually have to pay it. It's an imperialist notion, the idea that we have any right to impose a border for our own political convenience. It comes from the same people who are equally happy to say fuck the poor, the migrants, industries and services people need to survive; as long as I get what I want, namely a return to some kind of individual sovereignty that has never existed and never will, fuck the lot of them.

 

[andysays]

Oh thanks cupid_stunt ....Wales always backs the wrong team though... lol....
They'll have to join England at the hip and leave.

But Scotland and NI should be allowed determine their own future.

I agree that the people of NI should be able to determine their own future, but that shouldn't prevent the people of Britain determining THEIR future.

The current border arrangements are ultimately incompatible with Brexit, and one way or another they're going to have to change.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

because the Reamainers will cling at anything to stay in their beloved EU

Isn't it funny, how all the polite middle classes that never gave one iota of thought about Scotland or Ireland , now suddenly become champions of their respective independence causes, what next, guess they'll be drudging up independence for Kent or something

You've pointed out that a majority (very small) want out of the EU.
But a majority in NI want to remain. NI has been pretty much peaceful since the GFA.
So why do you think one part of the UK should dominate over another? Why should one UK resident's vote outweigh another UK residents vote? Isn't the voice of someome in NI as important as someone in England?

NI doesn't want to be part of the Republic. It wants to maintain peace and open borders. It wants to remain in the EU. Arlene Foster does not represent the entire population of NI. She, unfortunately is extremely blinkered and only represents the DUP. She is not a creative thinker. She is not a peacemaker. Unlike David Trimble who actually got it and understood the entirety of what was needed to make NI a peaceful place. And being part of something bigger was what secured and copper fastened peace in NI. Being in the EU allowed NI to breathe and grow.
Isolationism and being tied to the UK at all costs and losing freedom to move through Ireland will undoubtedly cause massive problems in NI.
People have tasted freedom of movement and peace. They will not give that up because other in the UK want out of the EU..

When is a UK resident not equal to their UK neighbour? Brexit will create second class citizens of all of the people living in NI. And the UK will pay dearly for doing that to the people it claims as its own.

There was a time when we could blame the monarchy for the mess made in Ireland. There was a time when we could blame the British government for the hell that happened in Ireland.
But now it's the Brexiteers. People whose blinkered perceptions of an isolationist England at all costs will toss their UK neighbours in NI into hell for the sake of what?
What do you think England will be after this? Do you really think it will be better? Do you think there will be more employment? More business? Do you think the economy will expand? Do you know? I doubt anyone knows...
But you and the other Brexiteers will have the satisfaction of sitting in the midst of the chaos you've caused for others and saying "not my business..not my monkeys...I'm alright Jack"

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I agree that the people of NI should be able to determine their own future, but that shouldn't prevent the people of Britain determining THEIR future.

The current border arrangements are ultimately incompatible with Brexit, and one way or another they're going to have to change.

Why is one UK resident's vote considered unequal to another UK resident?

 

[andysays]

Why is one UK resident's vote considered unequal to another UK resident?

It isn't. A majority of voters across the UK voted to leave, so the UK will leave.

If that was prevented from happening because a majority in NI voted to remain, that would effectively be a voter in NI's vote counting more than a voter elsewhere in the UK.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

It isn't. A majority of voters across the UK voted to leave, so the UK will leave.

If that was prevented from happening because a majority in NI voted to remain, that would effectively be a voter in NI's vote counting more than a voter elsewhere in the UK.

I know all that...but can you not see how this will fuck up NI ?

Maybe it's time for all the UK to vote on whether or not NI should be in the UK. Maybe people in England should vote to allow NI to become an independent country...or at least vote to cut it loose.

But that won't happen because most people don't want to involve themselves in the future of another country.

Oh...hang on.... doh...

 

[Baronage-Phase]

1922
Majority of Unionists wanted to remain in the UK. So Ireland was carved up and 6 counties left in the UK.

2018
Majority of NI / 6 counties want to remain in the EU. But guess what? They have no voice cos they're not fucking Unionists.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Colm Tóibín: The North must become an independent EU state

Maybe he is right.
Maybe this is the only solution.

Or...

NI realigns with the republic and the unionsists decide to live peacefully with the rest of the people on the island of Ireland.