Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[RedStag]

Which returning troll do you think redstag is? Poll (not) to follow...

grow up

 

[Pickman's model]

so I get it

no you don't

 

[RedStag]

Brexit is an utter mess. The question of the Irish border is part of the mess and a very tricky part for the British govt - a gift to the EU27 negotiators.

only a gift because our negotiaters are nothing but spineless liberals desperate for re-election - best option is to have a clear out, starting with Theresa May next wk

 

[Pickman's model]

only a gift because our negotiaters are nothing but spineless liberals desperate for re-election - best option is to have a clear out, starting with Theresa May next wk

next week's 118 weeks too late.

 

[RedStag]

it is late, but with any luck her pathetic 'deal' will be voted down by Parliament anyway

plenty of sensible folk to take her place, amongst others JRM and Gove would be useful and maybe Nigel can be persauded to reinvigorate things

 

[Artaxerxes]

trucks aren't going to be driving goods across fields en masse, so rather an irrelevant point

Do you understand how borders work? If there are ways through, around or a border that does a loop de fucking loop then the border doesn't work to do what it's meant to do.

 

[Artaxerxes]

A united Ireland is the solution.

I didn't always see it that way but urban does lead to the occasional epiphany or two.

Suspect most Irish don't want to deal with the shithole. Lovely scenery, shame about the DUP and assorted murderers.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Let’s hope no one decided to take advantage of the border impasse and construct a secret diesel fuel pipeline to take advantage of different tax regimes. That would be terrible

 

[Pickman's model]

it is late, but with any luck her pathetic 'deal' will be voted down by Parliament anyway

plenty of sensible folk to take her place, amongst others JRM and Gove would be useful and maybe Nigel can be persauded to reinvigorate things

don't know how jrm or gove would make themselves useful, other than jumping off beachy head or similar. and nigel's no use to anyone, the auld soak.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Let’s hope no one decided to take advantage of the border impasse and construct a secret diesel fuel pipeline to take advantage of different tax regimes. That would be terrible

It's the other black gold where the money is.

 

[JHE]

it is late, but with any luck her pathetic 'deal' will be voted down by Parliament anyway

plenty of sensible folk to take her place, amongst others JRM and Gove would be useful and maybe Nigel can be persauded to reinvigorate things

It's not at all clear that May (or any replacement) can get any deal to put to the HoC. If she does, yes, it will probably be voted down in the HoC. A no-deal Brexit definitely has no majority in the HoC, so the difficult question is: WTF happens then? It's not at all clear. Could we have another referendum? Not clear. If there were another referendum, would it be possible to cancel Brexit? Not entirely clear. Could cancellation be done unilaterally or would it need the agreement of all 27 other members of the EU? Not clear, but the ECJ is probably going to rule on this question within a couple of months.

If what you, unlike most people, really want is a no-deal crash-out, I fear you may get what you want despite there being no majority for it in parliament or among the electorate. A total fuck-up.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's the other black gold where the money is.

i hear that the journeys from and back to dublin are essential for the taste

 

[Pickman's model]

used to drink with an auld guy, patrick, who was on warfarin and whose dr said he could only have one bottle of guinness a day. but as i pointed out, yer man never specified the size. something like that can would have been grand.

 

[isvicthere?]

plenty of sensible folk to take her place, amongst others JRM and Gove

or ?

 

[Pickman's model]

or ?

more

 

[Manter]

don't know how jrm or gove would make themselves useful, other than jumping off beachy head or similar. and nigel's no use to anyone, the auld soak.

Paperweight, maybe? Doorstop? Garden ornament?? Sure could do something with him. Waste not, want not

 

[not-bono-ever]

Inside Slab Murphy's multi-million euro, cross-border smuggling empire

 

[isvicthere?]

more

 

[danny la rouge]

plenty of sensible folk to take her place, amongst others JRM and Gove would be useful and maybe Nigel can be persauded to reinvigorate things

At least try to be believable.

 

[Idris2002]

It's not at all clear that May (or any replacement) can get any deal to put to the HoC. If she does, yes, it will probably be voted down in the HoC. A no-deal Brexit definitely has no majority in the HoC, so the difficult question is: WTF happens then? It's not at all clear. Could we have another referendum? Not clear. If there were another referendum, would it be possible to cancel Brexit? Not entirely clear. Could cancellation be done unilaterally or would it need the agreement of all 27 other members of the EU? Not clear, but the ECJ is probably going to rule on this question within a couple of months.

If what you, unlike most people, really want is a no-deal crash-out, I fear you may get what you want despite there being no majority for it in parliament or among the electorate. A total fuck-up.

Given that Britain's famously unwritten constitution makes no explicit provision for referenda, this is one area where they really could make up the rules as they go along, surely?

 

[Idris2002]

The practicalities are difficult, but in any moral sense, political or philosophical its completely unacceptable that a nation/state of 60m people should be unable to decide for themselves what political and economic ties they want with their neighbours, and what form the border between them and their neighbours because of what a few hundred people threaten - or may threaten - to do.

It would be illuminating to know if those who those who claim that Brexit must be stopped in order to ensure a 'no' border' on the island of Ireland also believe that the Republic of Ireland should not have been allowed to come to fruition because of what a so.e people in the North thought...

One of the rewards of a no-deal, crash out Brexit - apart from watching Guardian columnists hurl themselves at France from Beachy Head - will be watching an EU member state, Ireland, erect the same border infrastructure that they claimed was unacceptable.

It's the EU's rules that require a physical border between single market and customs union members and non-members - it's their problem, not ours.

Killing me won't bring your empire back.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Take a good look at the Irish border, it's... fluid.

Half of some fields are in one country, half in another.

They couldn't police the border at the height of the troubles, good luck doing it now.

There wasn't drone technology then, there is now.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Top trolling!

Because border posts will become targets. Customs officers will become targets, who will need the PSNI to protect them... who will become targets...who will need the british army to protect them... who will become targets

With the use of drone technology, the attackers would be targets, dead ones.

 

[Idris2002]

With the use of drone technology, the attackers would be targets, dead ones.

I see you've given this matter some thought.

 

[flypanam]

With the use of drone technology, the attackers would be targets, dead ones.

Sounds like summary execution to me but the British army have previous in this regard, might even be called world's leading experts.

 

[JHE]

Given that Britain's famously unwritten constitution makes no explicit provision for referenda, this is one area where they really could make up the rules as they go along, surely?

There's not much more than five and a half months to go.

There would have to be a law passed to hold the referendum. The whole idea would be very controversial and the Labour Party is all over the place. As well as the question of having one at all, there is the question of what question or questions should be put in the referendum, what options there should be on the ballot and whether this should be a one-stage ot two-stage process. It is not obvious what the best option would be, let alone whether whatever you may want would get through parliament. The law would also have to set a date (or dates) and would have to allow time for a campaign.

Is there time for all this?

Supposing that cancelling Brexit is an option in the referendum, is this legally possible? Probably. If so, can it be done unilaterally? We don't know. Perhaps we will know later this year. Maybe in December. It'll be whenever the ECJ gets round to deciding. They've said they will expedite it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Would the UK have to ask for an extension to the two-year period (currently due to finish in less than six months) to hold a referendum or two and then maybe try to cancel? An extension requires the unanimous agreement of the member states at the Council of Ministers. Would there be unanimity? Not clear. There is some opposition in the Euro Parl - specifically from Guy Verhofstadt. It would only take one country to agree with Verhofstadt to stop an extension.

If the UK decides to cancel before Brexit happens, but the cancellation is only effective on the same conditions as an extension can be made, will all 27 other members agree? Perhaps some (or all) would want to extract a price for their vote. That could make things very difficult for whoever may be in govt in the UK at this stage.

No deal looks possible.

Peering into the future is usually difficult. In this case, although we are only talking about the near future, things are especially murky.

I would like to think that the campaign for another referendum really is proposing a realistic escape route from Brexit, but I don't know if it is.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Seeing as Arlene Foster is leader of DUP, and has larger support, holds the Conservative party in power etc. then her being Deputy PM makes sense

Calling 'troll' is rather a pathetic from of argument

She is failing miserably to represent a very significant group living in NI. Mainly Catholic Republicans. So fuck her...she's an isolationist who wants to use Brexit to fuck up the Good Friday agreement for her own Unionist purposes. Even David Trimble has told her she should not interfere with the Good Friday Agreement.
And yes...you're an idiot commenting on something you know nothing about.

trucks aren't going to be driving goods across fields en masse, so rather an irrelevant point

Idiot.

right I get it, so you're just another terrorist appeaser then - let me guess, a Corbynista?

Idiot

Sure they do, because NI is a territorial part of the UK

Idiot

end of?? well sure, let the ROI put up a border fence if they like then

Idiot

the solution is to have a border between NI and ROI , though this can be similar to Norway/Sweden or Switzerland/France etc..

Idiot

it's appeasement of terrorism, rather like saying we should not arrest gangbangers so as to avoid antagonising them

Idiot

Constitution matters of state are not petty.

as for the farms, I'm sure a special arrangement could be made for those in this kind of situation

Idiot

so I get it, your issue isn't really about Brexit at all, just using the EU debate as a smokescreen for a united Ireland.

why not just come out and say so

Idiot

 

[friendofdorothy]

it's appeasement of terrorism, rather like saying we should not arrest gangbangers so as to avoid antagonising them

grow up

I must ask, are you:
1: American (your use of the word gangbanger sounds like you mean people in gangs, not rapists)
2: too young to remember what NI and England was like before the 1999 Good Friday agreement

 

[Teaboy]

Seriously don't bother. I think its that total arse who last turned up as 4eyes. Anyway, the death threats will be out soon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Can't see why there's all this fuss over border issue with NI/ROI - just have regular border with some checks like they have in Norway/Sweden

Seems like a red herring to me, right?

Of course, why didn't we think of it sooner.