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White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years

I see this as more a case of one of the logical conclusions of atomised identity politics rather than anything to do with white supremacy. She has found a system ripe for milking and has worked it for all it is worth.

That's because you see white supremacy as something only the KKK does. I refer to white supremacy as set of structures, a system, if you like, that privileges white above all else and I locate RD's actions, lies and assertions within that system. I'm certainly not alluding to justify some conspiracy theory in which RD has purposefully and consciously used her white privilege to undermine the fight against racism although that's, in effect, what's she's been doing, whether she realises it or not.
 
Is she part of some greater 'white' movement or trend? Isn't there a danger when you start talking of 'this is how white people act' (if that's what you mean) that you end up falling down the same rabbit hole as she did?

tbh I'm not sure she's that interesting to be 'credited' with such things. I think I know what you mean here (not sure though) in terms of white people arrogantly making light of matters to do with race, but there's a danger of being unhelpfully divisive, no?


https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=White_supremacy#Academic_use_of_the_term
 
MochaSoul I agree with your view of white supremacy being a framework of privilege, and how Rachel dolezal's behaviour has undermined the fight against racism. I agree that this was probably not her intention, but her actions have had these consequences nonetheless.

Had she not used her white privilege in this way she could have achieved great things in the fight against racism. Everything she does for the next few years will likely be viewed with suspicion as to her motives.
 
It's not a form of identity politics at all. It's just the acknowledgement that a socially constructed structure does exist that allows for all that we see with racism and goes along way toward explaining things like the whys and wherefores of things like white centric ideals of beauty. It doesn't undermine class as another socially constructed set of structures that privileges some. It co-exists alongside it.
 
And yet, that exactly the road this woman has taken and the worst for it because she's, by example and by inference, teaching her poor mites that race is all on the surface and features on the surface, are the sum total of what a human being is worth.

My own experience, for what little its worth, is that the kids most likely to absorb their parents prejudices relatively uncritically are kids of people whose behavior and relationships are not so far from the norm in whatever community they are in and so get validated to a degree. Children of people this 'non-standard' are generally perfectly well aware of how different they are - they have to negotiate those differences. They're not infrequently a lot more conventional, and more sensible themselves. Obviously that's a meaningless generalization, but I would be more concerned about the potential for them to be hurt by the fall out from their mothers stupid actions than from her stupid views (whatever they may be at any one time - I doubt she's going to be consistent). They're certainly going to be confronted with alternative viewpoints about her, forcibly expressed.
 
That's because you see white supremacy as something only the KKK does. I refer to white supremacy as set of structures, a system, if you like, that privileges white above all else and I locate RD's actions, lies and assertions within that system. I'm certainly not alluding to justify some conspiracy theory in which RD has purposefully and consciously used her white privilege to undermine the fight against racism although that's, in effect, what's she's been doing, whether she realises it or not.

That's more like what I'd call structural or institutional racism.

I think it's only necessarily 'white' due to locality and historical context.

Sure, whitey* has had his time in the sun, but I think the British white majority, perhaps more so than their American counterparts (due to those particular cousins' diverging fortunes), are aware that change is the natural way of things.

* - I should point out that by 'whitey' I mean the white ruling class. Not the broad sweep of white people of which I'm 75% part of genetically and pretty much 100% culturally. Other ruling classes are, or certainly will soonly be, available.
 
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It's not a form of identity politics at all. It's just the acknowledgement that a socially constructed structure does exist that allows for all that we see with racism and goes along way toward explaining things like the whys and wherefores of things like white centric ideals of beauty. It doesn't undermine class as another socially constructed set of structures that privileges some. It co-exists alongside it.
The definition from your link talks about it in terms of identity politics pretty explicitly:

By "white supremacy" I do not mean to allude only to the self-conscious racism of white supremacist hate groups. I refer instead to a political, economic and cultural system in which whites overwhelmingly control power and material resources, conscious and unconscious ideas of white superiority and entitlement are widespread, and relations of white dominance and non-white subordination are daily reenacted across a broad array of institutions and social settings

A problem with this kind of thinking came up on the Charlie Hebdo thread, with an article linked to on there which discussed the je suis Charlie movement in terms of white supremacism. I don't think it was helpful there, and I'm not sure it's helpful here. It's extremely reductionist.
 
I definitely agree that children learn prejudice from those around them, especially family members.
My nephews have a mixed black and white heritage, and I dread the day someone makes them feel bad for it. My sister in law has a white father and black mother, and has spoken of how she has encountered prejudice.
 
The definition from your link talks about it in terms of identity politics pretty explicitly:



A problem with this kind of thinking came up on the Charlie Hebdo thread, with an article linked to on there which discussed the je suis Charlie movement in terms of white supremacism. I don't think it was helpful there, and I'm not sure it's helpful here. It's extremely reductionist.

I only gave that link to give you an idea of what I was talking about and on what terms. Plenty has been written about it that is not mentioned in that almost a stub of an article and the terms feature frequently in commentary about all sorts from "Why would black mothers straighten their children's hair" to "Why Vogue feels within its right to lighten black faces on its cover". Of course it's reductionist. It's a specialised study. But then so it's class and that doesn't go that long a way to explain some of the stuff that I experience as a black person, as woman or as a black woman, or anything else that I am.
 
A problem with this kind of thinking came up on the Charlie Hebdo thread, with an article linked to on there which discussed the je suis Charlie movement in terms of white supremacism. I don't think it was helpful there, and I'm not sure it's helpful here. It's extremely reductionist.

I don't want to derail the thread once again but I forgot to add. I'd not explain Charlie Hebdo in white supremacist terms but white supremacy as a structural sub-system goes a long way to explain things like the disparity of the media coverage of the deaths of, say, white children, and those of minority ethnic ones.

E2a: A better definition comes with the second of google results. 8ball calls it institutionalised racism, I see that as a dilution of the meaning.
http://soaw.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=482
 
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I think we talk about it and label it as 'institutionalised' as that is where and how on a everyday level we mostly interact with it?

This is why whilst I value the wealth of academic input/comment/defining of terms etc the way most people will/do interact with and make meaning of this is in their everyday lives...in those micro-traumas like the one I referenced up thread about the woman who had to list herself and kids as 'undetermined' instead of being able to 'own' who she/they are.
 
Hmmm. I'll have to have a think about that. It's a form of identity politics that I find is often pretty unhelpful as it obscures other factors at play, principally class.

It can. It doesn't have to. I agree that a selection of radically politicised academics are structuralist overdeterminists and believe in history without a subject and therefore ascribe resistance to a non-real/mental realm (ideology in other words) but I don't think saying that white supremacy structurally exists (I have a problem with the term white, but that's for another time) is incompatible with class analysis so long as one understands that the capital-labour relation (re)configures all that went before it.
 
The definition from your link talks about it in terms of identity politics pretty explicitly:



A problem with this kind of thinking came up on the Charlie Hebdo thread, with an article linked to on there which discussed the je suis Charlie movement in terms of white supremacism. I don't think it was helpful there, and I'm not sure it's helpful here. It's extremely reductionist.

Again you're missing the point. Yes that definition is problematic. But because it neglects the BME subject from its analysis, or put another way, it sees the BME subject as being overdetermined and/or interpellated, leaving no room for material resistance.

The routes of identity politics are in Stalinism and specifically Maoism.
 
I think we talk about it and label it as 'institutionalised' as that is where and how on a everyday level we mostly interact with it?

This is why whilst I value the wealth of academic input/comment/defining of terms etc the way most people will/do interact with and make meaning of this is in their everyday lives...in those micro-traumas like the one I referenced up thread about the woman who had to list herself and kids as 'undetermined' instead of being able to 'own' who she/they are.

I don't have many problems with people talking of "institutionalised racism". The reason why I prefer to refer to white supremacy is because it better alludes to a system based on an idea, with racism being the consequence of the idea. But then, I like to point to the heart of the matter. Similarly, while you refer to "micro-traumas" I'll refer to as "micro-aggressions" precisely because they point more to the origin/cause than to its effect (I'm talking of racism and not just its consequences). It doesn't mean we're speaking different languages either.

If you can be asked to read any more...

Rachel Dolezal’s Unintended Gift to America

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/o...ended-gift-to-america.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

The day people complain about more reading, please send me the links you come across in a message. :) Anyhoo James Thrasher made a similar point the other day, here: http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...al-delusional-construction-perception-of-race
and I found this a great piece on passing here: https://feministphilosophers.wordpr...niel-silvermint-on-how-we-talk-about-passing/

It can. It doesn't have to. I agree that a selection of radically politicised academics are structuralist overdeterminists and believe in history without a subject and therefore ascribe resistance to a non-real/mental realm (ideology in other words) but I don't think saying that white supremacy structurally exists (I have a problem with the term white, but that's for another time) is incompatible with class analysis so long as one understands that the capital-labour relation (re)configures all that went before it.

Thanks for this, dialectician , I'm glad you mention the capital-labour relation because I'm interested in marxist theory and, rather opportunistically, I guess, I'd appreciate a view on this. Would you say I'm more or less correct in thinking that white supremacy is/could be seen as/could have developed as a tool of the divide and rule games the powerful play with the people?
I'm particularly reminded here of Frederick Douglass' writings on the plight of the Irish and his disappointment when he noted the attitudes (and their role in the New York Draft Riot) of Irish emigrants towards black people as they arrived in America to escape the Great Famine.

Yes that definition is problematic. But because it neglects the BME subject from its analysis, or put another way, it sees the BME subject as being overdetermined and/or interpellated, leaving no room for material resistance.

I do agree it is as well. As I said, I only posted it as an introduction to the concept.
 
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Rachel Dolezal Case Leaves a Campus Bewildered and Some Scholars Disgusted
http://chronicle.com/article/Rachel-Dolezal-Case-Leaves-a/230947/



Performance and Contradiction

Other scholars of race across the country were more pointed. "I have three words for Rachel Dolezal," said Kinitra D. Brooks, an assistant professor of English at the University of Texas at San Antonio who specializes in black feminist theory: "How dare you?"


Ms. Brooks is one of a number of professors concerned that the controversy might strike a blow at the credibility of black and Africana studies, or at that of the scholars — both white professors and professors of color — who work in those fields.


"As black feminists, we have to work so hard just to be accepted and to have our critical theories considered valid," Ms. Brooks said. "Her falsity can color what so many have previously argued as the supposed illegitimacy of black feminist scholarship."


Not every professor shares that fear. "I don't think there will be any real repercussions for those who do serious, strong work," said Farah Jasmine Griffin, a professor of English and comparative literature and African-American studies at Columbia University. "I think she's done more harm to herself than to serious black women intellectuals."


Ms. Griffin, who is African-American, considers the fascination with Ms. Dolezal "a distraction" from more-pressing matters, like police treatment of black Americans. "The people who don’t take us seriously didn’t need her example to keep doing so," she said.


Martha S. Jones, chair of African-American studies at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, said there's no shortage of faculty members from diverse racial backgrounds who are doing valuable work in the field of black studies. "What is the value added for a woman who is seemingly white to take on the persona of a black woman?" she asked. "She can do the work without this performance."


What some professors find both insulting and fascinating about that performance is that it has clearly drawn from black-studies scholarship, including Ms. Dolezal's own.


"She’s been reading our scholarship and our commentary," Ms. Jones said. "She knows if there’s an intervention to be made in terms of her presentation of self, it’s the hair. We all read each other, write about hair, and there’s a whole lit about the significance, power, and symbolism of hair for black women. She knows that hair transforms the way we are read. Rachel is a really astute student of race in a curious way."

Tanya Golash-Boza, an associate professor of sociology at the University of California at Merced, who is white, also finds an interesting contradiction in Ms. Dolezal's efforts to pass as black.


"On the one hand, she appears to have a deep understanding of blackness due to her professional, community, and artistic work," Ms. Golash-Boza said. "On the other hand, her understanding of race — and of blackness, in particular — seems quite thin insofar as she seems to believe that a white woman’s performance of and appropriation of blackness is unproblematic."
 
I'm particularly reminded here of Frederick Douglass' writings on the plight of the Irish and his disappointment when he noted the attitudes (and their role in the New York Draft Riot) of Irish emigrants towards black people as they arrived in America to escape the Great Famine.
famine 1840s
draft riots 1860s

you might want to see the book 'how the irish became white': and note in particular the attitude of the irish in ireland, which was often at odds with the attitude of the irish in america.
 
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Had she not used her white privilege in this way she could have achieved great things in the fight against racism. Everything she does for the next few years will likely be viewed with suspicion as to her motives.

If she has in fact, (and it sounds as though she has, although not proven), been inventing utterly fake racist nastiness like the noose, the photographs "sent" to her etc., I can imagine some people using that, OK, *trying* to use that, as a way of impugning the credibility of the NAACP in future. Not good. Not good at all. :(:mad:
 

Pickman's model Very good conversation between African American academics:

Stacey Patton, senior enterprise reporter for The Chronicle of Higher Education;
Lacey Schwartz, producer/director of the documentary film "Little White Lie";
Linda Martín Alcoff, professor of philosophy at the City University of New York and author of several books; and
Jelani Cobb, associate professor of history and director of the Africana Studies Institute at the University of Connecticut.
 
Thanks for this, dialectician , I'm glad you mention the capital-labour relation because I'm interested in marxist theory and, rather opportunistically, I guess, I'd appreciate a view on this. Would you say I'm more or less correct in thinking that white supremacy is/could be seen as/could have developed as a tool of the divide and rule games the powerful play with the people?

Let me preface this reply by saying that I'm not white and hence my comments should be taken with that in mind. Essentially yes, white supremacy/institutionalised racism is a divide and rule strategy, insofar as it benefits the dispersion of capital and transference of a large amount of surplus-value from the first to the third world. That being said, white supremacy can only maintain itself with the collusion of coloured business and property owning classes (and in the worst case, the petit-bourgeoisie.) So it isn't a case of saying the non-white ruling-class has to conform to a white world and for that reason inadvertently sells out the coloured working-classes and peasants. They are actively involved in shaping a world where white supremacy exists at the moment, but, say, if it was in their interests to dismantle this relation they would and capitalism would remain relatively in tact. In fact I'd argue that such is going on now. There is nothing more becoming of the new liberal bourgeoisie than race/gender/religion based identity politics.

So ultimately we have to be very nuanced about this. The idea that a PoC can't be racist (see the recent bahar mustafa case) is utterly nonsensical given that race is not the driver of capitalism, although it can augment the capital-labour relation. Capitalism isn't white privilege and didn't necessarily arise in the world as such.
 
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in which case instead of people telling me to shut up they should challenge me - like you did.
Who told you to shut up?

I realise I know little about race but I know plenty about being transgender.

To illustrate a point, here I could suggest that your 'white priviledge' is showing when you make this assertion. :p :)

You know what it's like to be a 'White' person, therefore you do know some things about 'race'.

What you could have said is that you don't know what it's like to be Black, but by suggesting you know nothing about 'race' at all positions 'whiteness' as invisible, which it isn't; it also racialises 'Blackness' and makes you an authority/unaffected/undefined/unlimited by default because it's from your perspective.
 
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Who told you to shut up?



To illustrate a point, here I could suggest that your 'white priviledge' is showing when you make this assertion. :p :)

You know what it's like to be a 'White' person, therefore you do know some things about 'race'.

What you could have said is that you don't know what it's like to be Black, but by suggesting you know nothing about 'race' at all positions 'whiteness' as invisible, which it isn't; it also racialises 'Blackness' and makes you an authority/unaffected/undefined/unlimited by default because it's from your perspective.
i know, and I'm an idiot :facepalm:
 
I see this as more a case of one of the logical conclusions of atomised identity politics...

Identity politics (in the post-modern sense the term has been used for the last 35 years, anyway) can only logically conclude in such a way, where identity becomes purely a matter of interpellation - of identifying with, and taking on - of facets of identity, regardless of whether one actually meets any structural qualifying criteria for that facet.

...rather than anything to do with white supremacy. She has found a system ripe for milking and has worked it for all it is worth.

The problem being that her actions - and the present and future consequences of her actions - may feed into the arguments of racists. :(
 
tumblr_nq3pwx8W6g1qm17t9o1_540.jpg
 
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