White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years

[8ball]

Back in the 60s you'd get people grumbling that they couldn't tell what gender long-haired men or short-haired women were. Sometimes it's good to have assumptions challenged. (Not if it involves being lied to for the purpose of obtaining status or material benefit however).

Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Back in the 60s you'd get people grumbling that they couldn't tell what gender long-haired men or short-haired women were. Sometimes it's good to have assumptions challenged. (Not if it involves being lied to for the purpose of obtaining status or material benefit however).

This is the opposite of that though, surely. Isn't this an attempt to conform to externally reinforced ideals of beauty that include lighter skin, not some sort of attempt to rebel against or challenge anything?

 

[Citizen66]

This is the opposite of that though, surely. Isn't this an attempt to conform to externally reinforced ideals of beauty that include lighter skin, not some sort of attempt to rebel against or challenge anything?

Afaik that's it. Social pressure that lighter skin = more attractive.

E2a: I think it might be a hierchical thing too although my only experience of it is from an ex from Africa not an African American.

 

[DotCommunist]

Afaik that's it. Social pressure that lighter skin = more attractive.

Chris Rock (of all people!) did a docu on the politics of black hair and touched on this with issues of hair straightening\skin lightening. Even if we go back to books, you had writers of tolkeins era having beauty 'fair' i.e white, and whiteness- pale skin in general held up as attractive where all that is negative and bad is dark, stunted, swarthy and and so on.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Afaik that's it. Social pressure that lighter skin = more attractive.

E2a: I think it might be a hierchical thing too although my only experience of it is from an ex from Africa not an African American.

In India, lighter skin is associated with being of higher caste.

 

[8ball]

In India, lighter skin is associated with being of higher caste.

Isn't this to a degree tied up with British colonialism too (something I may or may not have read somewhere)?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Isn't this to a degree tied up with British colonialism too (something I may or may not have read somewhere)?

Could well be. May also have roots in the Mughal Empire.

 

[Citizen66]

In India, lighter skin is associated with being of higher caste.

I think it's similar in The Gambia. Not caste but the idea of wealth; social status.

 

[Idris2002]

In India, lighter skin is associated with being of higher caste.

This would go back to the conquest of India several millenia by lighter-skinned peoples from the north (with their soda farls and bowler hats and the like).

 

[Celyn]

...

I went to an Indian restaurant a while back and in the loos there were all sorts of sub-continental media stuff and pictures - lots of Bollywood related stuff but also bits and pieces of advertising for Indian products, some of which I was familiar with, but the skin lightening products ...

I'd find it weird to have any of this stuff in the loos, really. I expect there to be facilities for getting rid of bodily waste, facilities for washing and drying hands, and a mirror. Ah, also machines to sell condoms, tampons etc. But a whole load of advertising of stuff? Odd.

 

[Lurdan]

This is the opposite of that though, surely. Isn't this an attempt to conform to externally reinforced ideals of beauty that include lighter skin, not some sort of attempt to rebel against or challenge anything?

That's your assumption though. I don't personally feel comfortable attributing motive to people using skin lightening (or for that matter skin darkening) products.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think it's similar in The Gambia. Not caste but the idea of wealth; social status.

in our own dear blighty they say that once being tanned- for women or men- was a sign that you had to work outside, like the peon you were whereas rich people had parasols and did no work.

 

[butchersapron]

This would go back to the conquest of India several millenia by lighter-skinned peoples from the north (with their soda farls and bowler hats and the like).

Always blaming the aryan

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's your assumption though.

It's not an assumption when you're talking about large numbers of people and the various societal influences that lead them to do it. Take any one individual and you need to look at the individual's reasons, but take a class of people and notice a pattern - then you're moving beyond assumptions and towards identifying underlying causes of a social phenomenon.

 

[frogwoman]

In terms of the claims she has invented racial abuse, you mean, or something else?

The made up racial abuse and the general undermining of the Naacp as an organisation, and some posters calling her a jew and others saying that this is what white self hatred has brought us to.

 

[Idris2002]

Always blaming the aryan

Spoiler: Slap it up ye.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's all come out because (I think) she has a historical abuse case ongoing against her parents. If I've got that right they may very well be using her duplicity in her professional life in court to explain why she's making it all up, or whatever.

I do wonder about her family. The obviously have an unhappy relationship/or no relationship. I wonder if the rift is due to her confabulation or the confabulation is due to her fucked up family relationships?

 

[Lurdan]

Not sure what you mean by that.

Sorry - didn't see your post until I reread the thread. I was responding to you saying you were disturbed by it. Nothing at all wrong with finding things disturbing but sometimes it's because they challenge conventional assumptions. On the other hand sometimes it's because they ARE disturbing. Wasn't seeking to make a judgement about it either way.

 

[8ball]

The made up racial abuse and the general undermining of the Naacp as an organisation, and some posters calling her a jew and others saying that this is what white self hatred has brought us to.

A Jew?

It all seems a bit scattergun.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Another question that I have is that there seems to be an inconsistency between gender identities and racial identities. It seems to have some acceptance that someone can be biologically male (XY chromosomes) and have a female gender identity. Wouldn't it be possible to be white and have a black racial identity? There's far less biological basis for race than there is for gender, yet we're more accepting of the gender identity. In this particular case she seems to be a confabulator, but isn't it possible that there's someone else out there who's rejected "whiteness" in favor of "blackness"?

 

[frogwoman]

A Jew?

It all seems a bit scattergun.

Well they are scumfront posters. And this is something an american antifa posted on fb so it might be bollocks for all i know!

 

[DotCommunist]

A Jew?

It all seems a bit scattergun.

you have to remember some scumfronters will be trying to work out what part this woman plays in the wider zionist conspiracy

 

[Treacle Toes]

Another question that I have is that there seems to be an inconsistency between gender identities and racial identities. It seems to have some acceptance that someone can be biologically male (XY chromosomes) and have a female gender identity. Wouldn't it be possible to be white and have a black racial identity? There's far less biological basis for race than there is for gender, yet we're more accepting of the gender identity. In this particular case she seems to be a confabulator, but isn't it possible that there's someone else out there who's rejected "whiteness" in favor of "blackness"?

Erm.... Surely you mean ethnic identity...you know, based on your ethnicity, culture and experiences? So no...there isn't the inconsistency you are suggesting IMO. Listening to Black music, associating with Black people and issues, plus Blacking up does not make you Black.

Please read the link I put up above regarding the term and meaning of 'transracial'.

 

[8ball]

you have to remember some scumfronters will be trying to work out what part this woman plays in the wider zionist conspiracy

I totally missed that angle tbf.

 

[Citizen66]

Another question that I have is that there seems to be an inconsistency between gender identities and racial identities. It seems to have some acceptance that someone can be biologically male (XY chromosomes) and have a female gender identity. Wouldn't it be possible to be white and have a black racial identity? There's far less biological basis for race than there is for gender, yet we're more accepting of the gender identity. In this particular case she seems to be a confabulator, but isn't it possible that there's someone else out there who's rejected "whiteness" in favor of "blackness"?

Minefield.

 

[frogwoman]

They were calling her (apparently) a 'self hating jewess' which seems a bit bizarre given these are nazis were talking about.

Other nazis were bemoaning the fact that she had done this because of being ashamed of being white!

 

[8ball]

Sorry - didn't see your post until I reread the thread. I was responding to you saying you were disturbed by it. Nothing at all wrong with finding things disturbing but sometimes it's because they challenge conventional assumptions. On the other hand sometimes it's because they ARE disturbing. Wasn't seeking to make a judgement about it either way.

It's down to me associating wanting to lighten skin with the internalization of racism.
That may be an oversimplification in some cases, of course.

 

[5t3IIa]

I do wonder about her family. The obviously have an unhappy relationship/or no relationship. I wonder if the rift is due to her confabulation or the confabulation is due to her fucked up family relationships?

Or perhaps she's just a narcissist and con artist who, funnily enough, can't manage her relationships in a normal way?

Strange that some people can't bear to bring themselves to do anything except worry and wibble that she had a hard life due to her family and that's what forced her and excuses her being so fucking odd and fraudulently taking on scholarships and jobs?

 

[8ball]

Minefield.

Are black and white people different enough to notice?
A black mate of mine and gets ribbed for his taste in music not fitting expectations (he's a massive Kate Bush fan), but he seems unruffled by what could be considered an expression of his internal whiteness?

Also, being a quarter black myself, should I not be feeling some kind of weird internal racial dissonance?

By the way, I read that the correct use of 'transracial' refers to adoptions across race boundaries, which does apply in Rachel Donezal's case (ie. having a transracial background).

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Minefield.

Absolutely. Didn't you see me tiptoeing?