White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years

[MochaSoul]

I thought it was Jen who broke the internet. And this won't be the result of bullying, but rather the result of a demented narcissist taking it all to the next level. It wasn't "my chance to identify with the oppressed", it was "my time to shine".

Ah but is that what will be said by right wing racist media such as Fox? I think not

 

[Casually Red]

if there is a difference between Marco and Dolezal I think it could be stated something like this.Marco had not suffered in the way he claimed to have suffered so his attempted justification on the lines of the end justifies the means fell a bit flat.This is way more than we know for sure yet in Dolezal's case.Dolezal is way more than a carpet-bagger within the black community,she married a black man and she has a mixed son.For all we know that son suffers discrimination.If he does I have no doubt that Dolezal feels his pain and on that ground if on no other wants to react against a system that judges a person by what they are like on the outside when it should be more important what you are like on the inside (Dolezal had a fairly strict religious upbringing apparently).The 'blacking up' that is rather being exaggerated could be seen as part of more wide-ranging anti-discrimination strategies being adopted by Dolzal and perhaps to some extent justified on those grounds.The damaging bit for me is if it turns out that Dolezal posted the hate mail to herself and put the noose in the garden herself.She may have done but equally she might have genuinely been targetted by someone who objects either to her family or to the apparently effective advocacy work she is doing at the NAACP.We just don't know, the black community seem to be sticking by her thus far from what I have read.Tons of black women use stuff to make their skin tone lighter its a pity that they feel the need to do that but I wouldn't blame them for it it just depends where you want to be accepted.Sorry if I am just repeating other peoples stuff but I am with campanula on this everyone being mixed may be the future in the UK as well and not a bad thing.

Omfg ...I can't believe this . Nothing excuses this . Not discrimination , not " feeling someone's pain" . This is nonsense . I can't believe the convoluted hoops people are jumping through on this mendacious idiots behalf .

 

[winifred]

It was a bit of a nitpick on my part, tbf, although I think it's a distinction worth making... but eh?

I should check out what before making what assumptions?

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

 

[Casually Red]

I personally wouldn't consider applying fake tan as a means of "blacking up". And definitely not to be likened to the 'black and white minstrels' who purposely set out to ape black people, (whilst actually using theatrical black face paint).

Also, racially associated phenotypes are often adopted by people around the world e.g. people using bleaching products to whiten their skin; surgical procedures for Southeast Asian people to have double eyelids etc. Plus you get white people adopting hairstyles like dreadlocks and braids, which are associated with black culture / appearance.

Look . If I covered myself in fake tan and put on an Afro wig and ran about the place what would I be doing ? Blacking up or "feeling someone's pain ", " devising a strategy " ??

I'd be blacking up . End of . And that's exactly what she did .
There's nothing wrong with a white person getting a hairdo or adopting aspects of black culture . People all over the world do that with all sorts of stuff , it's normal . It's just about stuff we like and it's good to have stuff in common .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

Where did I say it was harmless?

 

[Buckaroo]

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

aping African Americans?

 

[Pickman's model]

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

a curious choice of phrase

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

To be crystal clear, the point was that they were not imitating black people. They were creating a racist caricature and playing that. Far, far from harmless. Harmful in the extreme.

 

[winifred]

To be crystal clear, the point was that they were not imitating black people. They were creating a racist caricature and playing that. Far, far from harmless. Harmful in the extreme.

Okay, I understand what you meant now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Okay, I understand what you meant now.

less of your monkey business

 

[Duncan2]

i've overspoken on this thread already but @cr i think you might be seriously under-estimating the power of familial bonds when you make light of the possibility that Dolezal might worry about her mixed-race son in Spokane or more generally that any parent of a black or mixed-race son in a lot of areas may be genuinely shit-scared on their behalf a lot of the time.For all I know the same thing could apply when from a young age you are raised with black siblings learn to love them just as though they were biological brothers and sisters then see them taking heavy-duty abuse.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That it was just some sort of harmless caricature. It was essentially a racist characture based on a racist American tradition, that historically involved white people aping African Americans.

More accurately, white people aping what they thought African Americans acted like based on very narrow experience.

 

[ViolentPanda]

aping African Americans?

Mimicking/copying.

 

[Miss Caphat]

I think the NAACP is absolutely doing the right thing by not condemning Dolezal. Clearly, what she did was wrong and it was deception, but since her whiteness should have no bearing on whether or not she was qualified for her position or not, it should not be grounds for dismissal or rejection of her, unless it turns out she has lied about things directly related to her position. It wouldn't surprise me if she were being advised for everyone's sake to resign, however.

If the NAACP had condemned her, it would give an incredible amount of fodder to the right wing here who constantly accuse such groups as being racist/ discriminating against white people.

 

[Buckaroo]

I think the NAACP is absolutely doing the right thing by not condemning Dolenz. Clearly, what she did was wrong and it was deception, but since her whiteness should have no bearing on whether or not she was qualified for her position or not, it should not be grounds for dismissal or rejection of her, unless it turns out she has lied about things directly related to her position. It wouldn't surprise me if she were being advised for everyone's sake to resign, however.

If the NAACP had condemned her, it would give an incredible amount of fodder to the right wing here who constantly accuse such groups as being racist/ discriminating against white people.

Lying about racial hate crime though?

 

[Buckaroo]

Mimicking/copying.

.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the NAACP is absolutely doing the right thing by not condemning Dolenz. Clearly, what she did was wrong and it was deception, but since her whiteness should have no bearing on whether or not she was qualified for her position or not, it should not be grounds for dismissal or rejection of her, unless it turns out she has lied about things directly related to her position. It wouldn't surprise me if she were being advised for everyone's sake to resign, however.

If the NAACP had condemned her, it would give an incredible amount of fodder to the right wing here who constantly accuse such groups as being racist/ discriminating against white people.

you've not been following this story, have you?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the NAACP is absolutely doing the right thing by not condemning Dolenz. Clearly, what she did was wrong and it was deception, but since her whiteness should have no bearing on whether or not she was qualified for her position or not, it should not be grounds for dismissal or rejection of her, unless it turns out she has lied about things directly related to her position. It wouldn't surprise me if she were being advised for everyone's sake to resign, however.

If the NAACP had condemned her, it would give an incredible amount of fodder to the right wing here who constantly accuse such groups as being racist/ discriminating against white people.

you're making a monkee of yourself

 

[winifred]

Look . If I covered myself in fake tan and put on an Afro wig and ran about the place what would I be doing ? Blacking up or "feeling someone's pain ", " devising a strategy " ??

Putting fake tan and an afro wig on implies that you're either getting ready for a 70s themed night, or you've probably made an inappropriate choice of fancy dress. Either way it's an attempt to mimic a black stereotype, in much the same way as the minstrels were.

And the difference between that and this woman, is that she styles herself using accepted cosmetic methods i.e. having permed or braided hair as well as fake tan.

If you'd seen this woman out in public without knowing her backstory, I doubt you'd necessarily think she was pretending to be 'black'.

 

[winifred]

[Edit: Double posted again]
Didn't realise the implications of using the word 'ape' in previous posts. So as not to be insensitive, I'll refrain from using it again within the context of this thread.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

More accurately, white people aping what they thought African Americans acted like based on very narrow experience.

Not even that really. What their racist idea of the world needed black people to be like in order to justify their racism.

Self-serving lies.

 

[TrustmeImaJedi]

It seems as though she is a pathological liar who fabricated her past. Very disturbing.

 

[Casually Red]

Putting fake tan and an afro wig on implies that you're either getting ready for a 70s themed night, or you've probably made an inappropriate choice of fancy dress. Either way it's an attempt to mimic a black stereotype, in much the same way as the minstrels were.

And the difference between that and this woman, is that she styles herself using accepted cosmetic methods i.e. having permed or braided hair as well as fake tan.

If you'd seen this woman out in public without knowing her backstory, I doubt you'd necessarily think she was pretending to be 'black'.

So you're only allowed to do it as long as your make up skills are above a certain standard ? Are you flipping serious
What if someone feels transracial but isn't very good at hairstyling ?
And you're saying you'll be fit to judge who's genuinely transracial and who's ripping the racial piss merely by sight ?

I can see this new white liberal lefty lark working well .

 

[Miss Caphat]

you're making a monkee of yourself

silly phone autocorrect, I think. corrected.

 

[Celyn]

Isnt that wings over scotland guy actually a gamergater living in bath?

He used to be a computer games journalist, and he lives in Bath, and I don't really see what he has to do with this thread or with this issue.

 

[toggle]

Colour photography is racist - really, this is not a joke:

http://jezebel.com/the-truth-about-photography-and-brown-skin-1557656792

E2A: But do read the comment in the thread that follows, in which a professional photography responds and says that a properly trained professional photographer can still take accurate pictures of black skin tones if he/she does his/her job properly.

which i guess will depend on whether their job is to take a good photo of the subject, or portray them in a certain manner. eg, lightening their skin tone to better fit white beauty norms, or show natural black skin tone to fit whatever racial stereotype they want to wave about, eg, black people with confidence is more likely to be read as aggression or hypersexuality.


that is a mess of an article though.

 

[toggle]

I have always been speaking for myself and myself alone. The use of the term 'indigeous', in relation to white British being thought of as indigenous to Britain, is usually used by the far right to argue against the further proliferation of non whites into British society.

Obviously, that's an unfounded fear that the white British gene pool will somehow become tainted by continued immigration into the country. However, I still believe that what some might regard as being a 'stereotype' re: indigenous Brits being 'white', risks creating the kind of revisionist picture that we often see in contemporary fiction. An example being a former BBC series ('Merlin'), which portrayed a 'multicultural' medieval Britain, where Guinevere was played by a black actress.

I am not sure how much it matters that a mythological figure is non white. but we're back onto the clusterfuck that was discussion on colourblind casting.

what is more important is to end the whitewashing of British history to the point that people believe there wasn't any non white population here until after WW2. if including black characters into period drama or victorian fantasy helps with that misconception, then i don't have a problem.


is this the time to dig up the debates on Queen Charlotte.

 

[toggle]

Also, I've seen debates between black panelists in the UK who have disagreed vehemently as to the degree of discrimination and prejudice that black people encounter within British society. One of the black women argued that things were much better in terms of career and life opportunities, and that black people should stop harking on about their disadvantange as stemming from the legacy of slavery. This appeared to garner much support from quite a few white members of the audience.

.

fits with the idea that spokespeople are the ones who are the more privilaged members of that identity group.

 

[MochaSoul]

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/977732-rachel-dolezals-racial-identity-controversy

ouch

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/978/080/694.png

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just unearthed this little nugget:

...and there's more...

While not wanting to make the transgender comparison, Harris-Perry questioned whether one can be “cisblack and transblack,” and whether there’s a way to describe “the achievement of blackness despite one’s parentage.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/melissa-...is-possible-that-she-might-actually-be-black/

However, I think this is the kind of perspective we need to read/take into account before letting anyone make up, coopt/appropriate the terminology or meaning of transracial...

The conversations around and flippant use of "transracial" to describe Ms. Dolezal’s deception (and lets be clear she has lied, profited from that lie, garnered a privileged position and has no plans to stop calling herself Black.) have been particularly triggering for me. I am a woman who through taking courses in and teaching Black Feminist Theory found solace, healing, inspiration in those sacred spaces. I am a Black woman who found my way back to the community I was taken from. The community that was the first to tell me I was beautiful when all I experienced was rejection and shame about my skin color and hair texture. As a Black woman who discovered that Black diaspora celebrated and embraced my very particular transracial adopted hybridity -- I’m angry at the dismissal of my identity and at the very real glorification of Ms. Dolezals.

As a multiracial Black person, as a transracial adoptee, I don’t take issue with racial and cultural hybridity, nor the way race and racial identity in our world is shifting. I believe in shattering notions of ‘authenticity’. I didn’t grow up in a home with mainstream media ideas about what is authentically “Black”. Does that mean because I didn't have access to Black or Filipino culture, mythologies, food, spirituality as a child that I'm not Black or Filipino? Not. Tell the authenticity police to talk to 14 year old me, sitting outside the front of my own house with my boyfriend, having the cops roll up on me and ask me what I'm doing there. But here - we are talking about race, not culture yes? (sarcasm?)

The crucial difference here is that I had and continue have no choice in my blackness. I cannot hide my skin or make myself invisible when I am protesting police terror or creating theater art for other Black women with skin like mine. I cannot manipulate what race is for my own pleasure. Ms. Dolezal is a white woman, who made choices, who used and is still using every bit of her white privilege to maintain the power and elite status she has accrued from her deception. This use of white privilege in her case is no different from transracial adoptive parents who adopt bi-racial children because they want these children to identify with the "white side” of themselves. These parents completely ignore that how they want race to function is not actually how race operates out in the world. They are completely assured of their own power to bend and change race and meanings of race at their own white whim. This manipulation is what Ms. Dolezal has done. This manipulation of race is no different from what white supremacists did in the early days of our country, moving the lines of race back and forth when it pleased them, using the language of the law, even at the cost of Black, Brown, Asian and Native lives.

http://www.thelostdaughters.com/2015/06/transracial-lives-matter-rachel-dolezal.html