White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years

[Pickman's model]

I'm sure there must also be an faq on being an insufferable pedant within your posts, which in itself serves to stifle discussion. If not, then there probably should be.

As for substantiating arguments... I wasn't aware that this was a prerogative within online discussion boards, especially when a person is merely expressing an opinion. Or perhaps I'm wrong, and that's also part of your much loved faq's? Either way, you sure know how to make a newbie feel welcome and all

so you think you can post up any auld shite and refuse to defend it on the specious grounds it's only your opinion.

 

[butchersapron]

This conversation is impossible if we are all post-race. If allwe can

I understand and accept your take on it as a valid point, though I think it can be more nuanced (might she have done this art work even if she hadn't decided to adopt this black identity?). However, I don't think it's "weird" for a white person to depict black people, in general. Which is why just saying it's weird is weird to me.

It's the fact they are in distress and need of help. I think.

 

[Casually Red]

I don't think comparisons can be made between gender disphoria and racial disphoria (?). I don't want to touch on the former as we've done that thread recently but gender/sex is a thing. Race is a construct. If we're saying someone can be born the wrong race then it's to accept that race is a thing also and we might as well concede that racists were right all along.

No disrespect intended but disphoria my arse . She's a massive bullshitter . And she's been caught out massively bullshitting . On a massive scale .

 

[butchersapron]

oh god X2

 

[Casually Red]

Having read some of the read-up for this woman in the OP linked article, it occurred to me that there might be some method to the apparent madness. Given her academic and civil rights background - could it be that this woman is performing some sort of social experiment i.e. the only way for a white person to truly know what a black person's day-to-day experience is like, is to become 'black' themselves?

No , she's a fucking bullshitter who figured out a nifty way to win this godfuckingawful privilege checking malarkey that's infested "left wing" politics . She sought an advantage , not a handicap .

 

[Treacle Toes]

Race is predicated on 'white' racial superiority and dominance.

Which is one of the reasons why I don't believe in 'racial' difference.

No matter how you try to paint the true picture of Britain's history, people will always associate it as a white nation despite the fact that there were non-white peoples living on these shores in centuries past.

How about you stop putting intentions into my input here. I haven't tried to paint anything...I know the true picture and nothing I have said to you changes that. I have challenged you on your own use of 'stereotypes', when you were speaking for yourself and not for others. You are now ualifyng and saying 'those' people over there, which changes what you have said because it suggests you haven't internalised the very same perceptions.

You want to speak generally, go ahead. But be clear about it. Also, do not pat my head and imply I do not know the experience of Non-white people in this country, past and present, how dare you. I am one of them.

As of the fact that you were born as a British citizen, as was I. Despite this fact, can you honestly say that you haven't encountered any racism whilst growing up and living within the UK?

Of course I have. Where have I suggested different?

 

[Miss Caphat]

This conversation is impossible if we are all post-race. If allwe can

It's the fact they are in distress and need of help. I think.

I still don't read that as being unusual.

Harper Lee, Bob Dylan, Steven Spielberg, Quentin Tarantino...I know there are countless other examples of white artists depicting black suffering.

 

[Casually Red]

Can't believe she's getting sympathy for this . Omfg .

 

[Wilf]

Can't believe she's getting sympathy for this . Omfg .

 

[Duncan2]

Plenty of white artists have depicted black people/black issues/black struggles/black perspectives in visual art, in music, in film, etc.
I don't see any reason why this is "weird" outside of the context of her fabricated identity. And it's not necessarily a part of that fabricated identity. Nor is the video you posted of her lecture on currency.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I understand and accept your take on it as a valid point, though I think it can be more nuanced (might she have done this art work even if she hadn't decided to adopt this black identity?). However, I don't think it's "weird" for a white person to depict black people, in general. Which is why just saying it's weird is weird to me.

It isn't weird for people to depict 'Black' sufferage either. Especially given it's impact on White identities...and how the two play out in our everyday lives. To say White people can't engage artistically with these issues kinda kills the whole movement to re-educate and ask White people to examine their 'priviledge' etc.

Her fabricated identity is meerly a fucking awful context for her art.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Can't believe she's getting sympathy for this . Omfg .

not seeing much sympathy but if that is the case it's probably that there's conflicting moral issues here

1) it's clearly fucked up for a white person to pretend to be black. I don't think anyone thinks that's debatable.

however, what might be the reasoning behind that misguided choice:

2) a white person identifying with black culture so much and wanting to be black so badly that they even start believing they are black is really not that horrible on its own

for everything she may have gained from this identity, I'm sure there is a lot (of privilege) one loses when giving up one's white identity

 

[MochaSoul]

I think she is unwell

I think that's just letting her off the hook

 

[Duncan2]

What I find surprising is that fooling all the white people must have been way the easiest part.Quite an achievement if she sustained the pretence over a period of years as she seems to have done

 

[Treacle Toes]

What I find surprising is that fooling all the white people must have been way the easiest part.Quite an achievement if she sustained the pretence over a period of years as she seems to have done

So you mean how did she fool Black people? why not just say that?

You do know that people who unify under the term 'Black' come in all shades, ethnicities and phenotypes right?

 

[Duncan2]

@Rutita I do not claim to have any understanding of difficult aspects of sociology neither do I intend to offend anyone.Just from my experience of African people and their strong sense of solidarity/identity if I imagine attempting a deception on these lines I would be exposed as an imposter within five minutes/seconds.

 

[Casually Red]

not seeing much sympathy but if that is the case it's probably that there's conflicting moral issues here

1) it's clearly fucked up for a white person to pretend to be black. I don't think anyone thinks that's debatable.

however, what might be the reasoning behind that misguided choice:

2) a white person identifying with black culture so much and wanting to be black so badly that they even start believing they are black is really not that horrible on its own

for everything she may have gained from this identity, I'm sure there is a lot (of privilege) one loses when giving up one's white identity

I don't care what her reasoning is . The central issue isn't privilege , it's that she is full of shit . To the point were she even invented a non existent hate campaign . 9 times .
Jesus Christ on a bike . This cannot be rationalised , it's completely out of order . It's a Viz character waiting to happen . That it's even remotely being indulged after the fact is a complete joke .

 

[Pickman's model]

@Rutita I do not claim to have any understanding of difficult aspects of sociology neither do I intend to offend anyone.Just from my experience of African people and their strong sense of solidarity/identity if I imagine attempting a deception on these lines I would be exposed as an imposter within five minutes/seconds.

some people are better liars than you

 

[Wilf]

You do know that people who unify under the term 'Black' come in all shades, ethnicities and phenotypes right?

What's really shocking to me is the personal side of her lie, the pretence that her foster brother was her son, pretending some other bloke was her Dad. Apart from being fucking horrible - the main issue - I supposed it's the hiding in plain sight, telling the big lie and repeating it. But managing to do that in an internet age when most Americans have highschool yearbooks following them around online, wow! A really sad mixture of the confidence trickster, a truly dysfunctional family and an extended political insult.

 

[Treacle Toes]

@Rutita I do not claim to have any understanding of difficult aspects of sociology neither do I intend to offend anyone.Just from my experience of African people and their strong sense of solidarity/identity if I imagine attempting a deception on these lines I would be exposed as an imposter within five minutes/seconds.

But we are not discussing African people, born and living in Africa. We are talking about someone from the US and as such we need to include knowledge of generations of mixed families, so that, with the phenotype she has is it's not such massive deal or unbelievable at all.

The fact it is not true is issue and that she lied, as well as the impact of that. Not that she 'couldn't possibly be' ...because she absolutely could be from a mixed family.

 

[Miss Caphat]

I don't care what her reasoning is . The central issue isn't privilege , it's that she is full of shit . To the point were she even invented a non existent hate campaign . 9 times .
Jesus Christ on a bike . This cannot be rationalised , it's completely out of order . It's a Viz character waiting to happen . That it's even remotely being indulged after the fact is a complete joke .

What's this now?

 

[MochaSoul]

Like yourself, I also don't believe in the concept of 'race'. It's based on anachronistic anthropogical 'science' from a bygone age. However, it's still prevalent within modern society, and consists of racial stereotyping.

Which is why organisations like the NAACP were created. I mean, it would be a tad foolish of black people to organise themselves against the consequences of a system created to further the business endeavours of white Europeans around the world. However, as fictional as those claims may have been, the framed and continue to frame whole cultures and attitudes to such an extent that some of the stereotypes you mention deprive people of their human dignity and their right to go about life unhindered. Such being the case, you couldn't possibly discuss the misappropriation of a place in such an organisation by means of orchestrating a whole fake identity as this woman has done.

 

[MrSki]

well in media circles she has certainly outdone the diversity officer at Goldsmiths.

 

[Wilf]

What's this now?

This seems like part of a longer interview on various items of hatemail she's received. The ambush comes at 7.55

 

[Duncan2]

But we are not discussing African people, born and living in Africa. We are talking about someone from the US and as such we need to include knowledge of generations of mixed families, so that, with the phenotype she has is it's not such massive deal or unbelievable at all.

The fact it is not true is issue and that she lied, as well as the impact of that. Not that she 'couldn't possibly be' ...because she absolutely could be from a mixed family.

I hear what you are saying Rutita but her 'father' did not appear to be mixed and my guess is a good number of her students would not be mixed she herself can apparently only appear remotely mixed by wearing toner I still think that was some acheivement.

 

[Casually Red]

for everything she may have gained from this identity, I'm sure there is a lot (of privilege) one loses when giving up one's white identity

Frankly I doubt it . If so she wouldn't have had to be running about inventing hoax hate mail . The world she inhabited was middle class liberal academia , infested with privilege checking . By pretending to be of another race she awarded herself immediate superiority in the intersectionality stakes and could adopt immediate "win" in any debate she was in ,unless it was against another black woman .
In the environment she chose to inhabit , civil rights and academia, she could present her views as the most authentic due to a false construct . She chose an advantage , not a disadvantage in that context .

 

[Treacle Toes]

I hear what you are saying Rutita but her 'father' did not appear to be mixed and my guess is a good number of her students would not be mixed she herself can apparently only appear remotely mixed by wearing toner I still think that was some acheivement.

I think we are talking at crossed purposes here. I can resort to posting pictures or videos of 'mixed' people or I can leave you to do your own research.

I have acknowledged the issue is that he lied and wore toner or whatever. I still know mixed people that look like her or that have 'whiter' skin. So what. The point is she lied. Which is my point and which is the point of why this story is news.

 

[Casually Red]

well in media circles she has certainly outdone the diversity officer at Goldsmiths.

I've cousins darker than her for christsake . It's turning into a pisstake . There's very real and serious racism out there , people wholl kill, assault , discriminate , arrest etc on grounds of race . all this kind of stuff just makes a laughing stock out of it . It's insidious and self indulgent and simply shouldn't be tolerated . Middle class cack , the only arena were its tolerated .

 

[Treacle Toes]

. pffft...off to bed...

 

[MochaSoul]

I'm all for so-called interracial mixing, especially as we all pretty much derive from a mixed heritage anyway.

Why thank you, dear sir!