Which way would you vote in an EU referendum?

[Idris2002]

Oh please, spare us this fucking crap. This poisonous narrative is no different to the narrative in the US that the economic crisis was caused by poor African-American families with mortgages or the narrative we get from certain quarters in this country that the economic crisis was caused by Labour's 'overspending' and our 'bloated' welfare state. It amounts to nothing more than blaming the poorest and least powerful in society for the faults of the elites that rule over them, a cunts trick IMO.



Probably because it's a complete non-issue in real terms.

Absolutely spot on, mather. There was a claim you used to hear that there were more Porsches than taxpayers in Greece. It turned out to be a ball of smoke some eejit had pulled out of his backside (he should have seen a doctor for that).

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I agree with most if not all of this, which is why it's so depressing that I still think that staying in the EU is the least worst option.

Juncker's coronation surely marks a low point for the EU project. Here is a man whose sole achievement seems to be turning his country into a giant money laundering operation, a man responsible for cheating European citizens out of vast sums of money, and he's now the boss of an organistation that thinks itself entitled to dismiss democratically elected governments if they don't get their finances in order.

But the alternative is Cameron reigning supreme which doesn't really bear thinking about. So I may well have to hold my nose and vote to stay in.

I don't think that Cameron would be "reigning supreme" on Britain's exit from the EU. He himself does't want us to leave. He is only going through the motions of setting up a referendum to please one part of his party. He does want to negotiate some alteration of terms of remaining in though but other EU members have hinted that they would support this.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

There was a claim you used to hear that there were more Porsches than taxpayers in Greece. It turned out to be a ball of smoke some eejit had pulled out of his backside (he should have seen a doctor for that).

An absurd claim which could never have been meant or taken seriously, and in no way detracts from a general point that tax avoidance is a significant issue in Greece; more so than in other European states.

 

[Idris2002]

An absurd claim which could never have been meant or taken seriously, and in no way detracts from a general point that tax avoidance is a significant issue in Greece; more so than in other European states.

And yet it was cited more than once - and the intention was not only to highlight that tax avoidance is an issue in Greece, but also to stigmatize the Greek population as a whole, and make them easier targets for austerity.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...ng-porsche-cayennes-than-paying-high-rate-tax

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't doubt that a certain class did their best to avoid paying tax, either personal or on the profits their businesses made in greece. Plenty of highh ups here consider tax avoidance a sport

 

[Argonia]

I benefit from the contentious free movement of peoples by being potentially able to relocate anywhere within the European Union so it has to be a vote to remain in from me.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Out of the EU why would movement be restricted? Why would trade be restricted?

 

[weltweit]

Out of the EU why would movement be restricted? Why would trade be restricted?

If we were lucky enough to retain the benefits of the EU trade club after having left it, we would still at least have to comply with all EU product standards and regulations in order to trade with the EU, but would have given up our ability to influence these standards and regulations in our favour.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If we were lucky enough to retain the benefits of the EU trade club after having left it, we would still at least have to comply with all EU product standards and regulations in order to trade with the EU, but would have given up our ability to influence these standards and regulations in our favour.

Jesus.

Do you really imagine that EU will just tell us to not let the door hit us on the arse on the way out and carry on?

The morning an OUT vote is announced the world as you know it will go batshit.

 

[Flavour]

People seem to think that before the EU that it was some sort of huge nightmare to move between European countries.

It wasn't.

 

[DotCommunist]

there would be another refendum scheduled for three weeks later. And another. Till we've got it right.

 

[weltweit]

.. Do you really imagine that EU will just tell us to not let the door hit us on the arse on the way out and carry on?
...

German companies like BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, the VW group, Miele, Siemens etc, will still want to sell as many products as they presently do in the UK even if we leave, it is unlikely they will be happy to have great trade barriers springing up.

I want the UK to retain influence in the EU, which is why I am pro EU.

 

[weltweit]

People seem to think that before the EU that it was some sort of huge nightmare to move between European countries.

It wasn't.

There were borders, where now there are none.

 

[Flavour]

Take Switzerland for example - they're not in the EU, yet a full 20% of their population are EU citizens. Do you honestly think UK exit would mean kicking out all the French, Italian, Spanish etc.? I don't. Nor do I think UK citizens resident in the EU would be forced home.

 

[gentlegreen]

It may make my retirement to France more difficult - will I still get my health costs covered when I reach 66 ? Or even get my state pension ? - after 44 years of contributions ?

A grotty bungalow in Fishguard would not be quite the same ...

 

[weltweit]

It may make my retirement to France more difficult - will I still get my health costs covered when I reach 66 ? Or even get my state pension ? - after 44 years of contributions ?

A grotty bungalow in Fishguard would not be quite the same ...

Yes, this whole thing has not come at an ideal time for you.
Still I guess perhaps best to know before you go!

 

[frogwoman]

Why do you think not being in the eu will mean britain has no influence on europe?

 

[NoXion]

I think it's import to remind ourselves which part of the UK gets to influence EU policy. It's certainly not the majority of working class UK citizens.

 

[Flavour]

It may make my retirement to France more difficult - will I still get my health costs covered when I reach 66 ? Or even get my state pension ? - after 44 years of contributions ?

A grotty bungalow in Fishguard would not be quite the same ...

there are plenty of people who receive pensions from their home countries in retirement abroad - with or without the EU. get over your imagined red tape worries and think about the bigger picture

 

[Flavour]

Why do you think not being in the eu will mean britain has no influence on europe?

and let's take that a step further even: why do we think britain's influence on europe is a good thing?

 

[gentlegreen]

I've always felt Europe was a good influence on the UK

 

[DotCommunist]

if we leave the EU kiss goodbye to microwave lasagnes and episodes of Spirals

 

[brogdale]

and let's take that a step further even: why do we think britain's influence on europe is a good thing?

It so obviously isn't; they're be better off with the UK out of it.

 

[weltweit]

Why do you think not being in the eu will mean britain has no influence on europe?

Many of the decisions the EU makes are made by groups comprising people from member states, if we are not a member state we don't get an input into these groups.

and let's take that a step further even: why do we think britain's influence on europe is a good thing?

That is a little like asking if it is a good thing Britain has its own government? The EU influences life in Britain in many ways as such that Britain can influence the EU is a good thing quite apart from the fact that as a long standing member we also have something to offer the EU.

I've always felt Europe was a good influence on the UK

I agree

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A grotty bungalow in Fishguard would not be quite the same ...

As a grotty gaff in Brittany. Cos it will be grotty.

 

[redsquirrel]

Thought I'd bump this after the Greece result. As Kaka Tim said on the Greece thread

AS someone mentioned above - the greek crises has exposed the true, ugly reality of neo-liberal european project. The mask has slipped. It is no longer seen as a grumpy club of gravy train riding, fudging political fixers muddling through with just enough competance to ensure most people's mutual benefit - but a heartless cabal of banking daleks who are quite prepared to throw a whole country to the wall rather than admit their own errors - because to do so would be to surrender their ideological strangle hold.

Has anybody changed their views after the what's been happening in Greece?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I think a vote to leave is now more likely in the UK and the centre left will be more divided on the issue

 

[redsquirrel]

I think a vote to leave is now more likely in the UK and the centre left will be more divided on the issue

Maybe, I think in the end they'll fall in with capital.

Has anybody seen the "anti-austerity" SNP/PC/Greens say anything about the current EU actions?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Even UKIP is very quiet a bout Greece, they could use it to show what scum the EU is, but they're neo-liberal fucksticks too, so silence from them.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Even UKIP is very quiet a bout Greece, they could use it to show what scum the EU is, but they're neo-liberal fucksticks too, so silence from them.

Farage has written several articles on exactly this theme. Mainly in the Telegraph IIRC.